Sunday, October 10, 2021

Cessna P210N Pressurized Centurion Turbine, N128EE: Fatal accident occurred October 08, 2021 at Atlanta-DeKalb Peachtree Airport (KPDK), Chamblee, Georgia

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

The National Transportation Safety Board traveled to the scene of this accident.

Additional Participating Entities:
Federal Aviation Administration / Flight Standards District Office; Atlanta, Georgia 
Textron Aviation; Wichita, Kansas
Roll Royce; Indianapolis, Indiana 

Algab Holdings LLC

Location: Atlanta, GA 
Accident Number: ERA22FA009
Date & Time: October 8, 2021, 13:11 Local
Registration: N128EE
Aircraft: Cessna P210 
Injuries: 4 Fatal
Flight Conducted Under: Part 91: General aviation - Personal

On October 8, 2021, about 1311 eastern daylight time, a Cessna P210N, N128EE, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident at Dekalb-Peachtree Airport (PDK), Atlanta, Georgia. The pilot, and three passengers were fatally injured. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight.

Review of PDK airport security surveillance video revealed that the airplane lifted off about 1,000 ft down runway 21 in a nose-high attitude. The airplane then rolled left and reached an inverted attitude before it impacted nose first beside the runway.

The debris area was compact, and the ground scars were consistent with the airplane impacting in a nose first, right wing down attitude. The fuselage came to rest upright, oriented on a magnetic heading of 245°. The engine remained attached to the firewall through the tubular engine mount and was heavily fire damaged. The propeller was separated from the engine at the propeller gearbox. One propeller blade remained attached to the propeller and the four other blades fractured off at the hub. The cabin and instrument panel were consumed by the postimpact fire. Both wings were separated from the fuselage and sustained significant postimpact fire damage. The tail section was thermally damaged. Flight control cable continuity was partially established due to multiple separations that displayed signatures consistent with overload separation and postimpact fire damage. The elevator trim tab actuator was observed in the thermally damaged wreckage with both actuator rods separated. The inboard actuator rod measured 1.5 inches extended which correlated to 5° tab down. The outboard actuator rod measured 1.7 inches extended which correlated to 5° tab up. Both trim tab actuator rods were free to rotate.

The six-seat, high-wing, retractable landing gear airplane, serial number P21000133, was manufactured in 1978. It was originally equipped with a reciprocating engine; however, it was converted to a RollsRoyce 250-B17F/2 turbo shaft 450-horsepower engine, equipped with a five-bladed composite MT propeller. Review of maintenance records revealed that the conversion was completed on July 19, 2021. At that time, the airframe had accumulated about 1,390 total hours and the engine had accumulated 2.3 hours since overhaul.

The airframe and engine were retained for further examination. 

Aircraft and Owner/Operator Information

Aircraft Make: Cessna
Registration: N128EE
Model/Series: P210N 
Aircraft Category: Airplane
Amateur Built:
Operator:
Operating Certificate(s) Held: None
Operator Designator Code:

Meteorological Information and Flight Plan

Conditions at Accident Site: VMC
Condition of Light: Day
Observation Facility, Elevation: KPDK,998 ft msl 
Observation Time: 12:53 Local
Distance from Accident Site: 0 Nautical Miles
Temperature/Dew Point: 26°C /18°C
Lowest Cloud Condition: Few / 3700 ft AGL
Wind Speed/Gusts, Direction: 4 knots / , 300°
Lowest Ceiling: None
Visibility: 10 miles
Altimeter Setting: 30.08 inches Hg 
Type of Flight Plan Filed: VFR
Departure Point: Atlanta, GA
Destination: Houston, TX

Wreckage and Impact Information

Crew Injuries: 1 Fatal
Aircraft Damage: Destroyed
Passenger Injuries: 3 Fatal 
Aircraft Fire: On-ground
Ground Injuries: 
Aircraft Explosion: None
Total Injuries: 4 Fatal
Latitude, Longitude: 33.879326,-84.298784 (est)

Those who may have information that might be relevant to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigation may contact them by email witness@ntsb.gov, and any friends and family who want to contact investigators about the accident should email assistance@ntsb.gov. You can also call the NTSB Response Operations Center at 844-373-9922 or 202-314-6290.
 
Daniel Boggs, Air Safety Investigator with the National Transportation Safety Board.
~
Julia Helen Smith
~

Julia Helen Smith, age 13 1/2, died on October 8, 2021 in a plane accident.

Julia was born March 30, 2008 at Northside Hospital in Atlanta, to Christina and Hunter Smith.

An intelligent, passionate, sharp-witted girl, Julia loved to learn and read. She was ardent about politics and enjoyed discussing social issues. The struggles of the less fortunate were foremost on her mind and she cared deeply about how she could help them. Julia pursued a wide-range of hobbies, including studying French and Spanish, playing tennis and basketball, surfing, and rooting for the Atlanta Falcons. She was an accomplished baker and enjoyed cooking for her family and friends. As a student at Griffin Middle School where she was in 8th grade, she pursued her passion for music, singing in the choir and school chorus, as well as playing both the French horn and the piano. Some of the memories she enjoyed reliving and sharing with gratitude were her family trips to Austria, Germany, France, and Italy. But her great love was the many summer months she spent in Cocoa Beach, Florida learning to surf. She reveled in her time with her many friends and will be deeply missed.

She is survived by her parents, Christina and Hunter; her grandparents, Mason and Hamilton Smith and Beth and Dr. Ken Benson; her aunts and uncles, Catherine and Per Wahlen, Carey and Robert McLaughlin, Rachel and Howard Smith; and her cousins, Emma, Alex, Elise, Cameron, Hamilton, Genevieve, and Isabel, as well as her beloved cat, Hazel B.

A memorial service will be held at St. Benedict's Episcopal Church in Smyrna at 10:30 AM on Saturday, October 16, 2021 followed by a reception at the Taylor-Brawner House in Smyrna at noon. Church protocol required masks. Because space in the church is limited, the family asks that those who did not know Julia personally but would like to offer their love and care watch the livestream of the service and attend the reception. The service will livestream from the church website.

In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

Jonathan Rosen and his daughter, Allison, were among the four victims who died in a plane crash at Atlanta-DeKalb Peachtree Airport.


A service was held Wednesday morning to honor the lives of Dunwoody residents Jonathan Rosen and his daughter, Allie.

Rosen, 47, and his 14-year-old daughter were among four people killed in an airplane crash at DeKalb-Peachtree Airport on Friday.

Rabbi Brad Levenberg of Temple Sinai officiated the service at Arlington Memorial Park in Sandy Springs.

“No explanation can soften our lament,” Levenberg said. “We find ourselves still in utter disbelief. [We] search for words to feel the pain away, that as we all know, do not exist.”

Rosen’s brother, Seth Rosen, spoke at the service.

“He was a beautiful father, brother, husband and friend who loved his wife, Jill, and worshiped his [daughters] Allie and Gabby. He talked endlessly about their accomplishments and his love for them,” he said. “His beautiful and generous spirit is too big to be adequately captured in a eulogy.”

Rosen was the CEO of Dunwoody-based Entaire Global Companies Inc., a financial services company that was acquired by Synovus Bank. He was also founder of the Dunwoody-based Jonathan Rosen Foundation, which provides financial literacy classes to teenagers.

“My brother accomplished so much. He soared to great heights,” Seth said. “He always aspired to be better, never settled and he never allowed himself to stand still … I ask you honor the memory of my brother by remembering the gifts he gave you. Aspire to be great. Lead others. Be generous. Persevere.”

Gabby, Rosen’s daughter, spoke next, focusing on her sister Allie, who was an eighth grader at Peachtree Middle School.

“Many of you know my father for the massive mark he made,” Gabby said. “Allie didn’t have enough time to make her mark. Well, fully make her mark. She was a climber, a record-holding weightlifter, and a pilot in training. She had so many friends … Both Allie and my dad were amazing people who deserve every bit of recognition they will get today. Even though their time was short, they touched so many people, and that’s what really matters.”

Lauren Harrington, 42, and Julia Smith, 13, were also killed in the crash. Harrington was a “loyal friend and assistant, having worked closely with Jonathan D. Rosen for 20 years, helping him grow his business until its acquisition by Synovus Bank in 2016,” says her obituary.

A private service will be held for Harrington at the H.M. Patterson & Son Arlington Chapel in Sandy Springs.

An investigator with the National Transportation Safety Board on Sunday said that a preliminary report about the plane crash should be complete within 14 days.

An effort is underway in Dunwoody to remember the Rosens by placing white ribbons outside homes and businesses.


Lauren Kate Harrington
MAY 19, 1979 – OCTOBER 8, 2021

A beloved daughter and sister, and great friend to many, Lauren Kate Harrington, 42, passed away on October 8, 2021. Born on May 19, 1979 in Worcester, Ma, Lauren grew up in Massachusetts, relocating later to North Carolina where she attended UNC-Greensboro. After college, Lauren moved to Atlanta in 1999. Ms. Harrington was an avid world traveler, having visited numerous countries on several continents, where she enthusiastically pursued new experiences and developed friendships with new people. Lauren’s love of her two cats, Roxy and Flynn was legendary, as was the time and effort she spent volunteering with various animal-focused charities in the greater Atlanta area. Lauren enjoyed experiencing new restaurants with friends, cooking, strength-training, and watching movies. Lauren was a loyal friend and assistant, having worked closely with Jonathan D. Rosen for 20 years, helping him grow his business until its acquisition by Synovus Bank in 2016. Lauren is survived by her Mother - Adrienne, her Father – Daniel and his partner Susan Rodburg, her sister - Brooke and her brother – Timothy and his wife Lenora, and nephews, Liama, and Zack, and will be missed deeply by friends and family alike. A private service will be held for Lauren at the HM Patterson & Son Arlington Chapel in Sandy Springs, GA. Donations in honor of Lauren’s memory can be made to Furkids.




Two children and two adults were killed Friday afternoon when a small aircraft crashed and burst into flames at DeKalb-Peachtree Airport, the DeKalb medical examiner’s office confirmed Monday.

Jonathan Rosen, 47, the plane’s pilot and owner, died in the crash, as did his 14-year-old daughter Allison. Lauren Harrington, 42, and Julia Smith, 13, were also on the plane, according to the medical examiner’s office. There were no survivors.

Daniel Boggs, air safety investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board who is leading the probe of the crash, said Sunday that he believed the passengers were on a personal family trip to Houston.

NTSB was on the ground at DeKalb-Peachtree over the weekend investigating the cause of the crash, interviewing witnesses and air traffic control tower workers and collecting videos. Officials from the independent agency, which is tasked with probing every civil aviation accident in the country and issuing safety recommendations, will likely be on site for two or three more days, Boggs said Sunday.

“We’ll be looking at the weight of the aircraft. We’ll be looking at the engine,” he said. “We’ll be looking at the servicing. We’ll be looking at the qualifications of the pilot.”

Later Sunday, a salvaging company was expected to move the remains of the aircraft to a secure facility, where NTSB officials will dissect the surviving components of the plane. It will be particularly difficult because the fire damage was so extensive, Boggs said.

Unlike larger and commercial aircraft, small personal planes don’t have black boxes or cockpit voice recorders that can shed light on the cause of crashes. Some smaller planes do feature boxes that show how the aircraft’s engines were running.

“We’re going to look at that but there’s so much fire damage we don’t think we’re going to get any usable data off of that,” Boggs said.

The 1978, six-seater Cessna P210N Centurion aircraft crashed at about 1:10 p.m. Friday. Cellphone video appeared to show the crash near the runway seconds after takeoff and a large plume of black smoke ascending from the plane’s charred remains.

Boggs said the aircraft was recently modified from a Continental engine to a Rolls Royce turbine engine. The plane was outfitted with an additional tank that was full of fuel, which explains the intensity of the fire, he added. NTSB is waiting for additional paperwork about the modification.

Boggs said he did not believe the weather was a factor in the crash.

NTSB plans to issue a preliminary report in 14 days, according to Boggs. A final assessment will be published in 12 to 18 months.

Rosen was CEO of Entaire Global Companies and founded a family foundation that teaches financial literacy skills to teenagers. His daughter was an eighth-grader at Peachtree Middle School who enjoyed rock climbing and weightlifting, according to her obituary. More information about Harrington and Smith was not immediately available.

Located in northeastern DeKalb less than 10 miles from downtown Atlanta, DeKalb-Peachtree Airport is the state’s second busiest behind Hartsfield-Jackson, with roughly 209,000 annual takeoffs and landings.

The airport and DeKalb County government issued a joint statement Monday thanking first responders and expressing condolences to the families who lost their loved ones in the crash. The statement was also read at an airport advisory board meeting Monday afternoon. Airport Director Mario Evans declined to discuss the crash further pending findings from the investigation.




50 comments:

  1. Very sad to see this. If this Cessna P210 did in fact have a turbine conversion, could it have possibly been miss fueled with 100LL? Sincere condolences to all of the families and friends associated with the victims. Hopefully, the NTSB will have a initial report soon.

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    1. It will fly on 100LL, doesn't work the other way around though.

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    2. Turbines mis-fueled with gasoline will run, but looking at this photo of the accident aircraft's purpose-built instrument panel, there should have been lots of out of tolerance indications being displayed for a significant ratio of gasoline mis-fueling:

      https://www.propjet210aviation.com/conversion-plane?lightbox=dataItem-kl9n6y24

      Markings at fuel ports didn't prevent other mis-fueling events, but here is a photo showing one of the accident aircraft's fuel port markings:

      https://www.propjet210aviation.com/conversion-plane?lightbox=dataItem-kd9ajnmo3

      There are a few seconds of low-res video of the crash shown at the 48 second mark in a wsbtv.com report on the crash. Hard to tell much from it.

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    3. Possible misfueld. But the situation can be recoverd by lowering nose. Stall is initiated by exceeding critical angle of attack. Possible medical situation.

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    4. Can't get the nose down if Aft CG out of limits. See report on 2012 Belgium Silver Eagle Aft CG crash in comments down thread..

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  2. RIP Jonathan Rosen. Condolences to his family. Now, can someone explain to me why an intelligent man who had personal wealth was flying a 43 year old P210 that should have been parted out a long time ago? Did he get some bad advice from someone about buying this conversion? Was he trying to save money by flying an obsolete airplane that was cheap to buy? If he wanted to fly turbines, he could have bought the Cirrus Vision Jet for $2m or less and enjoyed terrific safety, modern avionics, ballistic parachute, and a bigger cabin. This is a horrible tragedy that could have been avoided with modern equipment.

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    1. Gee, a Vision jet just crashed a couple of weeks ago and another started on fire just sitting on the ramp empty. This looks like a plane that was well taken care of and well equipped. Sometimes bad things happen.

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    2. That’s pretty idiotic. Have seen the pictures of the plane? Pretty state of the art upgrades the airframe and avionics.

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    3. A simple registration look up keyed to the Algab Holdings LLC name shows Cessna 182 ownership. A Cessna 210 is a perfectly understandable addition.

      Anyone who thinks that a 1970's Cessna can't be outfitted with a jetprop conversion by a competent shop on an approved FAA STC would be really floored to find out what Basler is doing with DC-3's.

      NTSB guy said the video showed N128EE reached about 75 feet above the runway. That is too low for any Cirrus's chute to function. The "lack of modern equipment" assertion doesn't fit the circumstances of what is known so far at all.

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    4. "Ships are alright, it's the men in them." Joseph Conrad

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    5. You sir, are an idiot. Parting out a top of the line, fully capable, turbine, fuel efficient, state of the art instrument panel, 6 seater, pressurized aircraft just because it was originally built some 40 years ago? You have no idea what you are talking about!

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    6. Piper Malibu outperforms C 210 safer too

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    7. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

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    8. The anonymous sounds like a lawyer of one of the victims fishing for information. Don't feed the troll.

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    9. The Silver Eagle conversion is a complete rebuild of the aircraft. Everything is inspected thoroughly and O&N/Propjet did hundreds of these. When the aircraft conversion is completed it is like getting a brand new ride.

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    10. I’m not certain a Malibu is any safer. The 210 wing is much more forgiving and rides better.

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    11. After 2000+ hrs in the Silver Eagle, I can tell you that this plane is very reliable. But it is a Turbine plane...so even if it is forgiving, things are happening very fast.From Wheels-off to the crash 6 seconds...From the outside it looks like a take-off stall...Jonathan was Member in our Association www.silvereagleopa.com. RIP Jonathan...My thoughts are with his family

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    12. I think he makes a better point than you guys are giving him credit for. There comes a time when a GA plane is better off left sitting for admirers. His point is that such a wealthy man COULD HAVE BOUGHT a far newer, or even a brand new plane. Also, any time you add a fuel tank you are NOT taking into account what the original engineers/designers had in mind for the plane. Elizabeth Taylor's second husband did the same thing with a Lodestar-- added fuel tanks. He met the same end this guy did.

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    13. Interesting to read about. The Lodestar didn't crash on takeoff, it threw a rod at 13,000 MSL and had ice accretion as well.

      Yes, the Lodestar had two tanks added, creating the extreme case of being 749lbs over MGTOW when fully fueled, before pilots, pax, bags or incidentals were added.

      Seems odd that the Lodestar's two additional tanks were approved on a 337 when full fueling of the standard tankage already put it 91 lbs over MGTOW with no pilots/pax, etc.

      The freshly re-manufactured Silver Eagle was likely overloaded and beyond the aft CG limit, but following the POH instructions related to the extra tank and placards visible in the compartment would have prevented those circumstances, same as any aircraft.

      The full Lodestar crash report is a good read:
      https://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/import/uploads/2017/08/N300E.pdf

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    14. The only things that were 43 years old on that plane likely had not a thing to do with the crash. I've never seen a more "state of the art" C210 than what is in the pictures. The number of responses to your ill-considered statements should tell you something.

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  3. Having seen the video of this accident, it looks similar to another crash that involved a seat that slid back on the rails. Once that happens, it can go south very quickly.

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  4. This accident happened when families were out with their kids at the sky park and eating at the Downwind restaurant which overlooks the runways. Plenty of people witnessed this tragedy. One witness, a pilot or mechanic, can't remember which while being interviewed by one of the local Atlanta network news affiliates, stated the aircraft on takeoff pitched up way too high and then stall-spun in. That hopefully means the occupants were deceased before the fire set in. There are video cameras all over that airport so the entire event was caught on camera to be sure. It is unlikely anyone caught it in process on their cell phones as this is one busy GA airport (second busiest in Georgia).

    RIP and condolences to the families, friends, and associates.

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    Replies
    1. Very sad crash. Gorgeous airplane and people. Avgas had nothing, nothing, to do with this, The best guess I have seen so far is that the seat slid back and the pilot lost control.

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  5. I found this comment from a local Atlanta news station interesting:

    "Investigators said the plane’s original engine was a turbine."

    https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/dekalb-county/least-one-victim-identified-ntsb-releases-details-fatal-plane-crash-pdk-airport/RQLQOMM275HCNPFOPHRMQV77CE/

    Yeah, well no it was not. There was never a Cessna 210 factory turbine, pressurized version or not. I'm pretty sure the NTSB employees are educated enough to know that there was no such thing as a factory turbine Cessna 210 (pressurized or not). If this is true by the reporter stated that this aircraft was originally a turbine, then that NTSB representative needs to be fired.

    In any event, here's the link to the company that did the turbine conversion and video of this aircraft specifically:

    https://www.propjet210aviation.com/conversion-plane

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    1. I would guess that the Atlanta news station team is unaware that there's a difference between 'turbo' and 'turbine' engines.

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  6. Too much "Talk" from everyone. From the Anonymous to the so called "Idiots" let's let things run their course Condolences to the family

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    1. I disagree. I think too much talk from everyone is a good thing. Just by merely participating in a dialog about an airplane accident will lead to better and safer pilots. Shutting down this discourse is like repressing a painful memory. It's not good. Added to that, waiting a year or two for the NTSB to release information is a year or two too late, where pilots have learned nothing. Then turning aviation forums into memorials for accident victims and shutting down debate because a family member maybe feel offended. I believe in your in mind you think you are being kind. But on the other hand you are being less safe and stopping others from being safer. That is not kind.

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    2. I agree; flew a 182RG and then a Mooney Ovation for 10 years; I read eagerly about every accident to see what -- if anything -- I can learn, to manage and avoid risk.

      No idea what happened here. Sounds/looks like a control issue, or medical issue? Even if you mess up a landing or takeoff very badly, it's hard to believe that you can mess it up so badly.

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    3. Why come to this web site if you don't like the content!
      It was never meant to solely be a memorial web site!!!

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  7. From a review of the AC: "The Silver Eagle requires lots of right rudder on takeoff and a rudder trim adjustment for every 10-knot increase in airspeed. Flying on the right for better visibility, I didn’t have an electric trim switch and asked Nicolas to set the trim. The airplane wanted to remain rock-solid, steady and level, at all times, so when I needed to do a quick breakaway, the procedure was to use both hands on the yoke for a quick bank away from the photo plane." I'm guessing but I've never seen any AC with rudder trim on the yoke so even in the left seat adding more rudder trim would have you take your right hand off the yoke to either spin a wheel or activate a switch, that hand no longer able to pull power back if the torque was too much. Of course you might ask why you need to adjust trim? Every AC I flew, B767 and others on down to SEL could be controlled in asymmetric flight without trimming the rudder. It just made it easier to take some/all pressure off. Something sounds strange about this "two hands" thing.

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    1. Flew a Silver Eagle, a ferry flight from Florida to San Diego. I found it to be a handful at takeoff, lots of torque out of that RR turbine. Looking at the camera footage, could be an aft CG issue coupled with a low speed torque roll.
      In any case, my sincerest condolences to the family and friends of these fine people. Rest In Peace.

      Delete
  8. For those interested in looking at Silver Eagle weight and balance, NTSB's investigation SEA05FA201 report and docket files provide useful info captured in a 2005 investigation:

    Report:
    https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/62571/pdf

    POH Excerpts:
    https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40262743&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Excerpts%20from%20Pilot%27s%20Operating%20Handbook-Master.PDF

    Installed equipment list/weight/arm:
    https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=40262745&FileExtension=.PDF&FileName=Aircraft%20Records%20Provided%20by%20O%20%26%20N%20Aircraft%20Modifications-Master.PDF

    Docket link:
    https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=62571

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    1. A 2012 Silver Eagle accident exceeded allowable aft CG limits with fuel fuel (including the aft baggage tank), pilot plus one adult, 3 children of ages 3, 6 and 7 and baggage, as detailed on page 33 &34 of the Belgium Air Accident Investigation Unit's pdf report (linked below).

      Useful load is 516 lbs on the long range version of the Silver Eagle that has 148.3 gallon of fuel capacity with all five tanks filled, according to an O&N representative's 2008 useful load post in the performance section of the p210silvereagle.com forum.

      Belgium's report on the 2012 Aft CG accident:
      https://mobilit.belgium.be/sites/default/files/downloads/2013-04.pdf

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    2. Seems those four passengers alone would likely have put them near max weight regardless of baggage they had on board as well. And with an extra fuel tank?

      Maybe as simple as exceeding weight limits?

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    3. The build pages for N128EE's conversion showed it having the aft baggage tank, which is the fifth tank. The 516 lb useful load is the number for Pax + bags when all five tanks are full,

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    4. Based on the grainy video available and the witnesses confirming an abrupt pitchup on takeoff, it's more likely a CG exceeding aft limit issue. That bird could easily take off a few hundred pounds overweight in normal CG configuration.

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    5. Agree on aft CG out of limits being likely. No baggage at all is allowed in the aft baggage compartment if the baggage tank is full.

      That is well explained in the Belgium accident report.

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    6. The M600 Malibu Can take 4 Pax and full fuel
      No tricky CG problems or torq problems

      Delete
    7. M600 fandom apparently doesn't include awareness of the ongoing NTSB investigation of M600 loss of directional control while landing. Tricky landing one if you are not just doing it in Microsoft Flight Sim.

      http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/02/national-transportation-safety-board.html

      Delete
  9. NTSB = The BEST aviation accident analysis in the world. Thank you, Mr. Boggs, for your dedication to aviation safety!

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  10. Seems like I read somewhere that they also had a large Labrador dog onboard. Adding even more weight to this, what appears to be, already overweight airplane. If his rear tank was full then I’m leaning toward aft CG issue.

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  11. I am sure they will look at misfuelling with Avgas. The picture of the fire shows black smoke indicating oily jet-A. However the intense fire might indicate gasoline... or a mix of gasoline and Jet-A? Anyway heart breaking loss of whole family.

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  12. What's the point of a turbine conversion if you can't carry two adults and two kids with a bit of luggage?

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    1. ...and completely filling all the fuel tanks to a max total capacity of 149.8 gallons and a 100 lb dog? With the rear tank filled with fuel, the max allowed weight in the baggage compartment is zero. If you want to carry 4 people and luggage, don't fill the rear tank.

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    2. It appears that the "normal" range pressurized turbine version with 106 gallons (kerosene!) full fuel ~733 lbs has almost 3-times the range 950/1,140 vs 340/550 (normal/max) of the piston at full fuel (avgas!) 534 lbs and about the same remaining payload of ~800 lbs.
      So the turbine conversion gives one more range and better performance at otherwise almost identical weights/loads (~2,400+1,600 T/~2,600+1,400 P) and the long-range version just trades some payload for even more fuel.
      In order to fill every seat and some baggage (6 x (175+15 lbs) = 1,140 lbs) on the turbine version one has to leave behind some fuel but it then still has more range with the remaining 460 lbs/68 gal than a full fuel piston one!
      Not sure about W&B restrictions, though, and one has to consider a MLW of 3,800 lbs, 200 lbs below MTOW of 4,000 lbs for all versions.

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  13. "Cessna P210 Centurion. The loading envelope is so broad and forgiving that it’s extremely difficult to louse up CG calculations. In fact, the P210 flier is more likely to find himself loaded out the front end of the center-of-gravity envelope rather than the rear, particularly on well-equipped airplanes." @ avweb and aviationconsumer

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    1. That’s a reasonable statement for an airplane equipped with the original Continental motor but the Allison 250 weighs approximately 200 lbs less than the Continental which has a dramatic effect on CG. Most SE turbines have a long snout to move the CG forward but it doesn’t seem to be the case with the P210 conversion, probably for aesthetics. If indeed there is a fuel tank in the baggage area and it contains (much heavier) JET-A then a severely aft CG is a distinct possibility. Gotta be very careful when operating conversion airplanes, they don’t necessarily have the characteristics of the original design.

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    2. Operating in accordance with the pilot operating handbook provided by the conversion company is the first step toward safe use.

      The converted aircraft was not experimental. All modifications were on approved STC's, the POH provided the revised W&B info and there were placard warnings about baggage vs. fuel. The Belgium accident report shows what happens when a pilot ignores POH, W&B and placards.

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    3. Jet-A weighs 6.7 lbs per gallon, avgas 6 lbs per gallon. While it's about 12% heavier, I wouldn't call that "much heavier". The increased density is simply from more carbon (and hydrogen) molecules providing more to burn, more chemical energy than avgas has per volume.

      Delete

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