Saturday, March 2, 2019

Boeing 767-375, operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 121 domestic cargo flight, N1217A: Fatal accident occurred February 23, 2019 in Trinity Bay, Baytown, Chambers County, Texas

The National Transportation Safety Board traveled to the scene of this accident.

Additional Participating Entity: 
Federal Aviation Administration / Flight Standards District Office; Houston, Texas

Aviation Accident Preliminary Report - National Transportation Safety Board:  https://app.ntsb.gov/pdf

https://registry.faa.gov/N1217A

Location: Trinity Bay, TX
Accident Number: DCA19MA086
Date & Time: 02/23/2019, 1239 CST
Registration: N1217A
Aircraft: Boeing 767
Injuries: 3 Fatal
Flight Conducted Under: Part 121: Air Carrier - Non-scheduled 

On February 23, 2019, at 1239 central standard time, Atlas Air flight 3591, a Boeing 767-375BCF, N1217A, entered a rapid descent from 6,000 ft and impacted a marshy bay area about 40 miles southeast of George Bush Intercontinental Airport (KIAH), Houston, Texas. The two pilots and one nonrevenue jumpseat pilot were fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed and highly fragmented. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 121 domestic cargo flight, which originated from Miami International Airport (KMIA), Miami, Florida, and was destined for KIAH.

Aircraft and Owner/Operator Information

Aircraft Make: Boeing
Registration: N1217A
Model/Series: 767 375
Aircraft Category: Airplane
Amateur Built: No
Operator: Atlas Air
Operating Certificate(s) Held: Supplemental

Meteorological Information and Flight Plan

Conditions at Accident Site:
Condition of Light:
Observation Facility, Elevation:
Observation Time:
Distance from Accident Site:
Temperature/Dew Point:
Lowest Cloud Condition:
Wind Speed/Gusts, Direction: / ,
Lowest Ceiling:
Visibility:  
Altimeter Setting:
Type of Flight Plan Filed:
Departure Point:
Destination:

Wreckage and Impact Information

Crew Injuries: 2 Fatal
Aircraft Damage: Destroyed
Passenger Injuries: 1 Fatal
Aircraft Fire: None
Ground Injuries: N/A
Aircraft Explosion: None
Total Injuries: 3 Fatal
Latitude, Longitude:

Captain Ricky Blakely 

Atlas Air First Officer Conrad Aska, 44, was killed when Atlas Air flight 3591 crashed into the shallow waters of Trinity Bay on February 23rd, 2019, near Anahuac. His body was recovered that day.


Sean Archuleta 36, a jump seat rider, was killed when Atlas Air flight 3591 crashed into the shallow waters of Trinity Bay on February 23, 2019, near Anahuac. His body was recovered the next day.

Accident No: DCA19MA086
Accident Type: Office of Aviation Safety
Location: Baytown, Texas
Date: 2/23/2019

​The NTSB launched a Go-team to investigate the February 23, 2019 Atlas Air #3591 crash into Trinity Bay in Baytown, TX.

NTSB Chairman Robert L. Sumwalt accompanied the team and will serve as the principal spokesman on-scene.

See the photos on NTSB Flickr site.

March 12, 2019 - Investigative Update

On February 23, 2019, at 1239 central standard time, Atlas Air flight 3591, a Boeing 767-375BCF, N1217A, entered a rapid descent from 6,000 ft and impacted a marshy bay area about 40 miles southeast of George Bush Intercontinental Airport (KIAH), Houston, Texas. The two pilots and one nonrevenue jumpseat pilot were fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed and highly fragmented. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 121 domestic cargo flight, which originated from Miami International Airport (KMIA), Miami, Florida, and was destined for KIAH.

The NTSB launched a go-team consisting of an investigator-in-charge from the major investigations division and specialists in structures, systems, powerplants, air traffic control (ATC), and meteorology. Specialists in operations, human factors, maintenance records, and flight recorders supported the investigation from other locations.

Parties to the investigation include the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Atlas Air, General Electric (GE) Aviation, Boeing, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, and the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. The investigative team was also assisted by numerous other federal, state, and local law enforcement and public safety agencies.

The wreckage was situated in a shallow muddy swamp area, and the main debris field was oriented east to west and about 350 yards long by about 200 yards wide (figure 1). One engine and some landing gear components were found beyond the main debris field to the west. Less dense components and a large portion of the cargo floated southward and were recovered up to 20 miles away. The wreckage was highly fragmented and resting in the soft mud in 1-3 ft of water. Recovery of the wreckage was very difficult in the swampy conditions because visibility in the water was poor and the muddy bottom could not support heavy equipment. Airboats, barges, and amphibious equipment was brought in to search for the recorders and retreive the wreckage.


Figure 1. Aerial view of main debris field during recovery operation.
Airboat in top center is retrieving the CVR at the time of this photo.

Air traffic control communications and radar data indicated the flight was normal from Miami to the Houston terminal area. About 12:30 pm the pilots contacted the Houston terminal radar approach control (TRACON) arrival controller and reported descending for runway 26L; the airplane was at 17,800 ft with a ground speed 320 knots.

At 12:34, the airplane was descending through 13,800 ft, and the controller advised of an area of light to heavy precipitation along the flight route and that they could expect vectors around the weather. (See figure 2.)


Figure 2. National Weather Service NEXRAD weather, white star is accident site.

About 12:35, the flight was transferred to the Houston TRACON final controller, and the pilot reported they had received the Houston Automatic Terminal Information System weather broadcast. The controller told the pilots to expect vectors to runway 26L and asked if they wanted to go to the west or north of the weather.

Radar data indicated the airplane continued the descent through 12,000 ft with a ground speed of 290 knots, consistent with the arrival procedure. The pilots responded that they wanted to go to the west of the area of precipitation. The controller advised that to do so, they would need to descend to 3,000 ft expeditiously.

About 12:37, the controller instructed the pilots to turn to a heading of 270°. Radar data indicated the airplane turned, and the automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) data indicated a selected heading of 270°. The airplane was descending through 8,500 ft at this time (figure 3).

Figure 3. ADS-B track

About 12:38, the controller informed the pilots that they would be past the area of weather in about 18 miles, that they could expect a turn to the north for a base leg to the approach to runway 26L, and that weather was clear west of the precipitation area. The pilots responded, “sounds good” and “ok.” At this time, radar and ADS-B returns indicated the airplane levelled briefly at 6,200 ft and then began a slight climb to 6,300 ft.

Also, about this time, the FDR data indicated that some small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up. The airplane then pitched nose down over the next 18 seconds to about 49° in response to nose-down elevator deflection. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.

Figure 4. Still frame from security video 

The airplane was manufactured in 1992 as a Boeing 767-375 in a passenger configuration and was equipped with GE CF-6 engines. It was converted to a freighter configuration in 2017. Maintenance records showed the airplane had 91,063 hours and 23,316 cycles at the time of the accident. There were no outstanding airworthiness directives or inoperative items.

Company records indicated that the captain was qualified and current in the airplane and held an FAA airline transport pilot certificate with type ratings for the B757/767 and EMB145. He had a current FAA first class medical certificate with a limitation for corrective lenses. He had worked for Atlas Air since September 2015 and had about 11,000 hours total flight experience with about 1,250 hours of experience in the Boeing 767.

The first officer was qualified and current in the airplane and held an FAA airline transport pilot certificate with type ratings for the B757/767, EMB145, and EMB170/190. He had a current FAA first class medical certificate with a limitation for glasses for near vision. He had worked for Atlas Air since July 2017 and had about 5,000 hours total flight experience with about 520 hours of experience in the Boeing 767.

A cockpit voice recorder (CVR) group was convened and will complete a transcript of the entire event. The CVR transcript will be released when the public docket is opened. Other groups include operations/human factors, ATC, weather, structures, systems, powerplants, and maintenance records. Further groups may be formed as the investigation progresses.

Additional information will be released as warranted.

Those who may have information that might be relevant to the National Transportation Safety Board investigation may contact them by email eyewitnessreport@ntsb.gov, and any friends and family who want to contact investigators about the accident should email assistance@ntsb.gov.

NTSB Laboratory Completes Initial Review of Cockpit Voice Recorder, Recovers Flight Data Recorder

March 05, 2019

​Engineers at the National Transportation Safety Board’s Office of Research and Engineering Vehicle Recorder Division completed the initial review of the Atlas Air Flight 3591 cockpit voice recorder Saturday evening and recovered the airplane’s flight data recorder Sunday.

Three people (the two pilots for the flight and a non-revenue jump-seat pilot) died when Atlas Air Flight 3591, a Boeing 767-300 cargo jet, crashed in the muddy marshland of Trinity Bay Feb. 23, 2019, about 40 miles from Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport. The airplane was destroyed. The airplane was carrying cargo for Amazon.com Inc., and the US Postal Service from Miami to Houston.

The condition of the accident site made locating the recorders challenging.



In this photo, taken Saturday in the NTSB laboratory in Washington, an NTSB engineer from the Office of Research and Engineering’s Vehicle Recorder Division inspects memory boards from the cockpit voice recorder of Atlas Air Flight 3591 for signs of damage and water intrusion. Atlas Air Flight 3591 crashed Feb. 23, 2019, about 40 miles from Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport, and the NTSB recovered the airplane’s CVR March 1, 2019. NTSB photo.

Directors from the Office of Research and Engineering and the Office of Aviation Safety conducted an audition of the CVR as part of the NTSB’s ongoing investigation of the accident. 

The audition revealed the following information, which is preliminary and subject to change as the investigation continues: 

  • The length of the recording is approximately two hours and was obtained from a download of a solid-state type cockpit voice recorder.
  • The recording included the final portion of the flight; however, the quality of the audio is poor.
  • There are times during the recording when the content of crew discussion is difficult to determine, at other times the content can be determined using advanced audio filtering.
  • The crew was in communication with air traffic control and were being provided radar vectors for the runway 26L approach into George Bush Intercontinental Airport.
  • Crew communications consistent with a loss control of the aircraft began approximately 18 seconds prior to the end of the recording.

The flight data recorder arrived at the NTSB’s Recorder Lab Sunday at 11:45 p.m. 

The memory module was disassembled, cleaned and dried, and download of the data was achieved Monday afternoon. Initial review of the data revealed:

  • The accident flight was captured, and the FDR contained a total of about 54 hours of data from 17 flights.
  • There were approximately 350 parameters recorded by the FDR detailing the motion of the aircraft and operation of its engines, flight controls and other systems.
NTSB recorder investigators are currently verifying and validating the FDR data, and the NTSB plans to provide a summary in an investigative update in a few days.

Technical experts in the CVR group will convene in the coming week to review the entire recording and produce a transcript of the accident recording. It will be a time-consuming process to complete the transcript.

The CVR group is one of the seven investigative groups established by the Investigator-in-Charge for the accident investigation.

Imagery of the NTSB’s investigation of the accident is available via the NTSB Flickr account at https://flic.kr/s/aHsmabxem8 and B-roll is available via the NTSB YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/user/NTSBgov.





A few weeks ago a Boeing 767-375 was maneuvering near an airport when it abruptly nosedived and plowed into the ground at tremendous speed, killing everyone aboard. This was not the Ethiopian Airlines crash on March 10 that has transfixed the world, however. It was an American plane, a 767, and its destruction in a muddy bay near Houston remains even more mysterious and, consequently, potentially more disturbing in its long-term implications.

At 12:30 p.m. on February 3, Atlas Air Flight 3591 was near the end of a flight from Miami to Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport, carrying cargo for Amazon and the U.S. Postal Service. Two pilots were at the controls and another was riding as a passenger. A band of stormy weather lay across the route, and as the plane was descending from 8,500 feet, air traffic control advised the pilots to turn left from a northerly heading, in order to get around a band of precipitation. A different controller then said that they’d be given vectors to clear skies. One of the pilots replied, “Okay.”

A few seconds later, the plane hit a patch of rough air. For reasons that are unknown, the flight crew throttled the engines up to full thrust, and then after the plane pitched slightly up, pushed the controls sharply forward until the plane was descending at a 49-degree angle — about what you’d encounter on the steepest of ski runs. The plane kept diving, even as cockpit warning systems called for the pilots to pull up. Security-cam footage shows the plane plummeting from 6,000 feet:



Eighteen seconds after the trouble started, the plane smashed into the muddy waters of Trinity Bay, killing everyone aboard.

A preliminary report by the National Transportation Safety Board on the incident caused a stir when it cited “control input” as the cause for the steep dive. Was this a case of pilot suicide, like the Germanwings pilot who programmed his Airbus A320 to fly into the side of a mountain in 2015? But it’s hard to imagine that, in the midst of trying to maneuver through and around bad weather, a pilot suddenly decided to commit suicide.

A revised version of the NTSB report changed the language to “a nose-down elevator deflection,” which seemed to move responsibility away from the human pilots and raised the possibility that a malfunction, perhaps of the autopilot, could have been responsible. But there are no known autopilot modes that would behave like this.

In online pilot discussion forums, a third idea has been gaining adherents: that the pilots succumbed to a phenomenon called somatogravic illusion, in which lateral acceleration due to engine thrust creates the sensation that one is tipping backward in one’s seat. The effect is particularly strong when a plane is lightly loaded, as it would be at the end of a long flight when the fuel tanks are mostly empty, and in conditions of poor visibility, as Atlas Air 3591 was as it worked its way through bands of bad weather.

The idea is that perhaps one of the pilots accidentally or in response to wind shear set the engines to full power, and then believed that the plane had become dangerously nose-high and so pushed forward on the controls. This would cause a low-g sensation that might have been so disorienting that by the time the plane came barreling out of the bottom of the clouds there wasn’t enough time to pull out of the dive.

It has been speculated that this might have been the cause of another bizarre and officially unsolved accident from three years ago: Flydubai Flight 981, which crashed 2016 in Rostov-on-Don, Russia. That plane had been returning Russian vacationers from Dubai when it encountered bad weather and was unable to land. After circling for an hour and a half, the pilots attempted to land, then aborted the attempt, came around again for another attempt, and then aborted again. After climbing sharply, the plane pitched forward into a steep dive and smashed into the edge of the runway, killing all 62 people aboard.

The crash of two 737 Max airplanes — Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and Lion Air Flight 610 — in quick succession is horrific, but in a way, this kind of disaster shows how the system is supposed to work: a mishap occurs, officials determine what happened, and then the problem is fixed so that future air travel will be safer. While it’s still too early to draw any kind of conclusions about Atlas Air 3591, the possibility exists that a firm conclusion will never be drawn — and if it is, the cause could turn out not to be a design flaw or software malfunction that can be rectified, but a basic shortcoming in human perception and psychology that cannot be fixed as long as humans are entrusted with the control of airplanes.

Original article can be found here ➤  http://nymag.com

The Wall Street Journal
By Andy Pasztor
March 15, 2019 4:06 p.m. ET

Federal air-crash investigators suspect that pilot errors, rather than aircraft malfunctions, led to an Atlas Air cargo plane’s nosedive near Houston in February that killed all three people on board, according to people familiar with the details.

National Transportation Safety Board experts, these people said, are focusing on a likely sequence of events that started with the crew of the Boeing Co. 767 approaching Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport on Feb. 23 inadvertently commanding dramatically increased engine thrust. Turbulent air could have jostled the arm of one of the pilots, causing the engines to rev up to takeoff power, one of these people said.

The sudden surge in thrust, which the safety board disclosed in an earlier factual update, forced the nose of the plane to pitch upward and startled the cockpit crew, according to these people. Almost immediately, according to the preliminary data released by the safety board, the crew responded by sharply pushing down the nose of the aircraft.

The board previously said the nose was pointed downward at a 49-degree angle with the plane still about 30 miles from the airport, creating a much steeper descent than a normal landing approach.

The seemingly disoriented crew failed to regain control—despite commands to pull up from the jet’s high-speed dive—and the wide-body plane plowed into a marshy area.

The safety board said the crew had the required training and medical certificates.

The safety board hasn’t issued any final conclusions, and the leading theory currently pursued by investigators could change as more information is developed. A spokesman for the board said it had no comment beyond the factual update released earlier. Boeing had no immediate comment.

Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings Inc. and the union representing its pilots both declined to comment, citing the ongoing investigation.

But at this point, such cockpit slipups are considered the most likely cause of the crash. The plane was skirting around some storm cells before the plunge, but people familiar with the details said the turbulence didn’t cause any structural damage or lead any system to malfunction.

In its update, the safety board said the “engines increased to maximum thrust” as the plane was flying at roughly 6,000 feet. After a brief nose-up movement, according to the update, the Boeing 767 entered a steep descent in a “generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp.”

Many airline and aerospace industry officials have watched the probe closely because the 767 model is widely used as a passenger jet around the globe.

The Atlas Air flight, en route to Houston from Miami, was flying cargo for Amazon.com Inc.

The last fatal U.S. airliner crash also was a cargo flight. In 2013, a United Parcel Service Inc. Airbus A300 slammed into hill while approaching to land in Birmingham, Ala., killing both pilots. The safety board determined that a series of pilot errors and violations of safety procedures caused that accident. The aircraft descended too quickly toward a runway shrouded by clouds, and the pilots waited until the last seconds to try to initiate a go-around.

Original article can be found here ➤ https://www.wsj.com

Rick Blakely, Conrad Aska, Sean Archuleta 

In this photo taken February 24th, 2019, NTSB senior investigator Jim Hookey (on right) with Dan Kemme of GE aviation, examines wreckage recovered from the scene of the February 23rd, 2019, cargo jet crash in Texas.


In this photo, NTSB investigators along with representatives from Boeing and Texas Game Warden searching Trinity Bay for recorders from the cargo jet crash in Texas using pinger locator equipment to listen for the underwater locator beacon. 













National Transportation Safety Board investigators on shoreline of Trinity Bay examining wreckage.


The Anahuac Chamber of Commerce placed three memorial crosses in 

Video captured February 23rd, 2019, shows the final moments of doomed Atlas Air flight 3591 which crashed into Trinity Bay.

The Chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board Robert Sumwalt talks about the wreckage of a Boeing 767-375 contracted by Amazon that crashed into Trinity Bay.

Perrye Turner with the FBI talks about the wreckage of a Boeing 767 cargo jetliner contracted by Amazon that crashed into Trinity Bay.

The Chambers County Sheriff Brian Hawthorne talks about the wreckage of a Boeing 767 cargo jetliner contracted by Amazon that crashed into Trinity Bay. 

Don Dalton talks about his friend/roommate who died in the Boeing 767-375.



Chambers County Sheriff Brian Hawthorne gives an update on a plane crash in Trinity Bay during a news conference on February 23rd, 2019. 


Members of the Houston Police Department's Dive Team perform a grid search for wreckage of Atlas Air flight 3591, which crashed into Trinity Bay on February 23rd, 2019.





Wreckage from Atlas Air flight 3591 is seen floating in Trinity Bay after the cargo plane crashed February 23rd, 2019.

Pilot Sean Archuleta, First Officer Conrad Jules Aska of Antigua and Captain Ricky Blakely of Indiana.







22 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think it is interesting that the FBI is getting involved in this crash. What was this plane carrying? Are they looking at the background of the crew members? Was this a possible terrorist/suicide related crash? Kind of reminds me of TWA 800 where the NTSB was doing the investigation and then got taken over by the FBI. I heard that they were even tampering with evidence on the 800 crash. I still don't believe the story that "fumes" in the center fuel tanks ignited due to a short in faulty wiring. I think 800 was brought down by a missle or bomb. There is plenty of info out there on the internet that support this.

Anonymous said...

The FBI will help with the investigations to make sure foul play was not involved, no mysterious or terrorists.

Anonymous said...

Spatial disorientation induced by turbulence resulting in loss of control (NTSB reports CVR audio indicates loss of control 18 seconds before impact) and inability to recover fully due to lack of altitude....or sabotage/suicide.....a mystery.

Anonymous said...

Nobody seems to care about the cargo planes, its all been forgotten by the news organizations, RIP for the 3 pilots.

Anonymous said...

^^^ isn't that the truth ...

I'm interested because I fly the same type plane ... Sans the boxes.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a computer tech geek or an aircraft designer but I am a private pilot. I have a theory for some of these recent large plane crashes that I would like to hopefully have individuals in the know respond to the feasibility of such a scenario. It seems that the majority of these crashes have occurred with Boeing built aircraft. MH370 was a 777, Amazon crash another 777, this crash a 737. Do they all use a similar computer system for the flight deck? Is it possible for a computer hacker to gain access to the system and override the controls from the pilots? Could this be a new form of terrorism? Is it possible to do this from a laptop in the passenger compartment or even from the ground? Obviously if it is possible(I think anything is possible if one puts their evil mind to it),the airlines would never want this info getting out to the public as it would bring an end to the airline industry as we know it. I stick to my Piper Arrow & Cessna 172 with cables & pulleys and me giving the inputs to the flight control surfaces thank you very much!

Anonymous said...

My bad, the Amazon Prime crash was a 767.

Anonymous said...

Yes it was. Typos happen. Yes they do.

Anonymous said...

Computer Science majors without flight experience should not be coding for flight control system. It should be a mandate that learning to fly is a pre-req for all coders that work on flight control system. And the underlying assumption to trust the sensors. I have CS degree and PPL. Some of the decisions made by CS majors who doesn't care about flying is to blame. A lot of CS majors have this ego that they can separate all use cases into buckets to be handled by the code. And that pilots are not be trusted..... Because Sensors > Humans is the motto. Oh and don't get me started with sensor fault detection(trust 2 out of 3, but what happens when 2 out of 3 sensors fail at the same time)?

This is speaking from experience working on coding projects and even my own experience.

RIP.

P.S. I won't get into a self driving car either.

Jimbo said...

“There is plenty of info out there on the internet that support this.”

Well, if it is on the internet, it must be true. You can’t post stuff on the internet that isn’t true.

Anonymous said...

“There is plenty of info out there on the internet that support this.”

Well, if it is on the internet, it must be true. You can’t post stuff on the internet that isn’t true. Go watch this documentary on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF68-HQ74tI Some of this comes from the mouths of the NTSB investigators, I didn't make it up. The black box for the Amazon 767 shows throttles going to full power followed by the control yoke being pushed hard forward all the way to impact. You can't tell me that was an accident, sounds deliberate. I wonder what the cockpit voice recorder shows and which pilot had the controls at the time of the accident. I'm thinking the FBI is looking closely at the 3 flight crew member backgrounds.

Anonymous said...

What is being heard is that the throttle activation was unintentional ...

The recovery from a situation that didn't exist was intentional and extreme due to incompetence ...

This is going to be an unbelievable and sad read when the details come out.

RIP to those on board.

Anonymous said...

Unlike mass media, the internet isn't tightly controlled (yet). There is a trove of true, valuable information available at your fingertips. The challenge is to filter out the nonsense. Unfortunately, even with the internet, it is difficult to discern between truth and fiction in cases such as TWA800

In contrast, evidence in the MH17 case is abundant, and the truth about it came out in 2018. The question remaining is whether it was a mistake (Buk radar) or an order from Ukrainian top brass.

Anonymous said...

I can actually imagine a series of pilot errors, improbably though they may be, that would put this aircraft in this position, drawing a straight line through the data released in that report, which was a lot, actually, if analyzed by people who understand their significance.

For example, it is notable that the thing stayed straight on its heading during the entire accident sequence, which implies that autopilot was still coupled, given that hand-flying in an escape maneuver probably wouldn't result in that-perfect a heading.

What other things the autopilot/autothrottles did with power, trim, etc., to compound the situation if not uncoupled during the sequence strike me as something to investigate.

But the idea that the accident sequence was initiated by a pilot's arm being "jostled in turbulence" such that it caused max thrust, and then nobody pulled it back, seems bizarre.

Obviously, coordinating the CVR with the DFDR is critical, but wouldn't NTSB have done that already?

Anonymous said...

According to radar the aircraft had a ground speed of 277 miles an hour at 6,525 feet of altitude with a rate of descent of 4,750 feet per minute, a descent rate figure very high for that altitude. Thirty seconds later the next radar hit has the aircraft at 3,025 feet with a ground speed of 282 miles an hour but with an extremely high 9,986 feet per minute rate of descent. When you do the math the descent angle is 22 degrees at that point. Most airfoils stall at 24 degrees. The data indicates, to me, the aircraft stalled due to the very high descent rate which may have been caused by a micro-burst associated with the line of thunderstorms ahead. The application of power and pushing the nose down are the exact correct aircrew response to a stall. They were unable to stop the rate of descent but did manage to get the nose up to a 20 degrees nose down angle at impact. My two cents.

Anonymous said...

I have difficulty believing a 767 crew would shove the throttles full forward on an aircraft that has auto-throttles installed, fail to recognize what the aircraft did in response to said input, and then put the aircraft in a 49 degree nose down dive leading to impact. And with an extra set of eyes in the cockpit to boot, albeit not qualified on the airplane. Does not pass the smell test, and the pilots cannot give their side of the story...

Anonymous said...

Once the FDR and CVR are interpreted and transcribed, both the sequence of events and probably causes will become clear. It seems like the investigators have already determined there is no systemic cause.

We take it for granted that "commercial planes don't crash these days" but it's actually a tiny miracle and defiance Nature every time one completes a flight. We've gotten extremely good at aping the ways of feathered dinosaurs, but it's still a defiance of Nature, which waits patiently for the chance to take revenge.

Anonymous said...

Funny no mention of the A/P or were they hand flying?

Anonymous said...

The NTSB Preliminary Report is normally released within 30 days, and it has not been published. A few leaks from "insiders" say it is not an airplane issue, but a crew member issue. Rumor is the Captain sheared the control breakaway by pulling so hard, while the FO was pushing forward.

Anonymous said...

The video doesn't show split elevators, the Go Around switches are inactive above 2000 feet agl Radio Altimeter tied, flaps out and Glide Slope captured. I would guess the Take Off logic for those switches is similar, flaps out, air ground switches in ground mode and the throttle angle resolvers beyond 70 degrees for the auto-throttles to power up. So the whole scenario is not possible in my opinion.

Unknown said...

Here is an idea! If the NTSB can't figure this out, then they should dump all the CVR/FDR data out to the industry to sort this out. It's May 14 2019 as I write this and no one has any solid information to speak of. Think of the families affected by this! If anyone deserves some measure of solace and closure, it's them.

Anonymous said...

Heard on good authority the FO pushed the yoke with his feet after pushing the throttles up, 18 seconds start to finish.