Monday, November 19, 2018

Cessna 441 Conquest II, registered to and operated by Bismarck Air Medical, N441CX: Fatal accident occurred November 18, 2018 in Harmon, Morton County, North Dakota

The National Transportation Safety Board traveled to the scene of this accident. 

Additional Participating Entities: 

Federal Aviation Administration / Office of Accident Investigation and Prevention AVP-100; Washington, District of Columbia
Federal Aviation Administration / Flight Standards District Office; Fargo, North Dakota
Textron Aviation; Wichita, Kansas
Honeywell Aerospace; Phoenix, Arizona
Bismarck Air Medical; Bismarck, North Dakota 

Aviation Accident Preliminary Report - National Transportation Safety Board:  https://app.ntsb.gov/pdf


https://registry.faa.gov/N441CX

Location: Harmon, ND
Accident Number: CEN19FA030
Date & Time: 11/18/2018, 1040 CST
Registration: N441CX
Aircraft: Cessna 441
Injuries: 3 Fatal
Flight Conducted Under: Part 91: General Aviation - Positioning - Air Medical (Medical Emergency) 

On November 18, 2018, at 2240 central standard time, a Cessna 441, N441CX, was destroyed when it broke up in-flight and impacted an open field near Harmon, North Dakota. The airline transport certificated pilot, flight nurse, and paramedic were fatally injured. The airplane was registered to and operated by Bismarck Air Medical under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 135. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident, and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan had been filed for the air medical cross-country flight. The flight originated from Bismarck Municipal Airport (BIS), Bismarck, North Dakota, at 2230, and was en route to Sloulin Field International Airport (ISN), Williston, North Dakota.

Preliminary information indicated the crew was en route to ISN to pick up a neonatal infant for transport back to BIS. Radar data indicated the airplane climbed on a direct course until reaching 14,000 feet above sea level. Ground speed was at 240 knots. The airplane then entered a steep right bank and radar contact was lost. No distress calls were received.

Wreckage was scattered for about 1 mile long and 600 feet wide on snow-covered terrain. The cockpit area, cabin area, empennage, both engines and propellers, and both wings were identified and recovered. Flight control continuity was established.

Aircraft and Owner/Operator Information

Aircraft Make: Cessna
Registration: N441CX
Model/Series: 441 No Series
Aircraft Category: Airplane
Amateur Built: No
Operator: Bismarck Air Medical LLC
Operating Certificate(s) Held: On-demand Air Taxi (135)
Operator Does Business As:
Operator Designator Code: R6DA 

Meteorological Information and Flight Plan

Conditions at Accident Site: Visual Conditions
Condition of Light: Night
Observation Facility, Elevation: KBIS, 1661 ft msl
Observation Time: 2252 CST
Distance from Accident Site: 16 Nautical Miles
Temperature/Dew Point: -4°C / -6°C
Lowest Cloud Condition: Few / 900 ft agl
Wind Speed/Gusts, Direction: 9 knots / , 50°
Lowest Ceiling: Overcast / 2400 ft agl
Visibility:  10 Miles
Altimeter Setting: 30.04 inches Hg
Type of Flight Plan Filed: IFR
Departure Point: Bismarck, ND (BIS)
Destination: Williston, ND (ISN)

Wreckage and Impact Information

Crew Injuries: 3 Fatal
Aircraft Damage: Destroyed
Passenger Injuries: N/A
Aircraft Fire: None
Ground Injuries: N/A
Aircraft Explosion: None
Total Injuries: 3 Fatal
Latitude, Longitude:

Those who may have information that might be relevant to the National Transportation Safety Board investigation may contact them by email eyewitnessreport@ntsb.gov, and any friends and family who want to contact investigators about the accident should email assistance@ntsb.gov.

Todd James Lasky, 48, passed away November 18, 2018, as the result of an air ambulance crash. 

A joint celebration honoring all who perished will be held at 10:00 am Monday, November 26, 2018 at the Bismarck Event Center 315 S 5th St, Bismarck.  

Family will greet visitors from 2:00 pm – 5:00 pm on Sunday, November 25, 2018 at Eastgate Funeral Service, 2302 East Divide Avenue, Bismarck.

Todd was born March 31, 1970 and raised in Virginia, Minnesota with his parents Diane and James Lasky and “Sis” Tammy Lasky-Barboni.  His passion for service and community started at a young age, joining the Police Academy after graduation from high school in 1988.  An incident affecting his “trigger finger” forcing him to choose another career path, Todd finished his Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautics from the University of North Dakota in two years.  Todd experienced a diverse background from Flight Instructor at UND, Chief Pilot for several private companies, corporate pilot for a major airline and then ending up in Bismarck as a pilot for Bismarck Air Ambulance. 

Todd loved to fly and was an excellent and meticulous pilot.  Passengers, patients, families and colleagues could count on him to sign, seal and deliver.  He was dependable, honest, intelligent, patient, humble, quick witted and had a huge heart.  He would always “do the right thing” and was quick to offer assistance to alleviate any un do stress and worry to another and take it on himself.  A natural born “giver” he emulated that characteristic in his personal life, as well. 

Todd’s talents and natural God-given gifts were a huge part of his life.  His passion for motorcycles, snow cats, water craft, ATV’s….you name it, he could RIDE IT (and) FIX IT!!!  His “need for speed” was apparent to all that knew him. 

One of his fondest memories and experiences was the snowmobile he built with his father.  This would become the fastest world record for speed in the NSSR 600cc class.

He lit up with pride and teared up with love in his eyes when he would talk about his dad and all of the time they spent together.  Family was of the utmost importance to him and was also very close to his mama and big Sis.  A day or two didn’t go by without a phone call or a text to check on how they were doing.  Nephews and relatives alike were all impacted by his charm and giving spirit.

Todd was the proud owner of his “hobby job” and business, Year-Round Recreation.  If he wasn’t flying or on an adventure with a motorized vehicle, he could be found inside his shop diagnosing the next piece of equipment or building a motorcycle from scratch! 

Talent, drive, work ethic, and a Jack of All Trades, Todd was blessed to have had the opportunity to express his passions on a daily basis and share his excitement with everyone whom he came into contact with.  The next “snowfall” when he could get his rig out into the white stuff was all he could talk about since the leaves were changing colors!  His excitement was contagious and he could usually talk someone into getting just as excited as he was about it!   Many of his friends and acquaintances from the shop claimed to have become a little more serious about riding after working with him on something he had fixed for them.  He was charismatic and fun, a story teller and a prankster.  His smart wit and humor was appreciated by everyone that came into contact with him.

A man of deep faith, inventor, teacher, business owner, father, friend, brother, significant other…Todd will forever hold sacred places in our hearts.  From the twinkle in his puppy dog eyes, his out of this world amazing smile, his HUGE tight hugs and his gentle patient spirit, we will FOREVER miss and honor him. 

Blessed to have shared his life was his mother, Diane Lasky and the late James Lasky; his sister, Tammy Lasky-Barboni, her husband Peter and nephews, Michael and Nicholas; his son Austin Lasky; his true love, Bonny Wesolowski-Senger and her family Jami (James) Summers, Jorden and Jace Senger and his fur babies, Lucy and Louie. 

Fly high Todd….you are our hero!

Tailwinds to eternity…until we meet again, God bless your beautiful heart and soul. We love you always and forever.

https://www.eastgatefuneral.com

Chris Iverson, 47, Bismarck, died November 19, 2018 in Bismarck, ND.

A memorial service will be held at 10:00 am on Monday, November 26, 2018 at Bismarck Event Center, 315 S 5th Street, Bismarck.

Family will greet visitors from 4:00 pm – 7:00 pm Sunday, November 25, at Parkway Funeral Service, 2330 Tyler Parkway, Bismarck, with a prayer service at 7:00 pm.  

Once in a lifetime you meet someone who changes your whole world, for me that was my husband. Chris Alan Iverson was born May 7, 1971, in Tacoma, Washington to Donna Jean (Kjos) and Clayton Jacob Iverson, the 4th of 5 children. He was raised in Tacoma and attended Franklin Pierce High School, where he excelled in FFA and football. He spent his free time with friends camping, hunting,s and fishing in the Puget sound. His love of the outdoors stayed with him throughout his life.

Not long out of school Chris met his first love, his daughter Breyana Lynn, on September 29, 1992. He began working for Takasaki Construction on Fort Lewis Air Fort Base and continued there for almost 10 years. During this time, he met and married his lifetime love, Jennifer Darlene McKenzie. They were married September 13, 1997, in Tacoma, Washington. They resided in Tenino, Washington for 2 years where they welcomed their daughter, Emma Louise, on March 27, 1998 and mourned the loss of their son Christian Jacob on October 8, 1999.  In 2000, they moved to The Tri-Cities and Chris began work at Boise Cascade Paper Mill. On November 15, 2002 they completed their family by welcoming their son, Seth Elias Iverson. In the search to find better hunting grounds and a good place to raise a family, the Iverson family moved to Cathay, North Dakota in 2003.  Chris began work at Canadian Pacific Railroad as a conductor and joined the Cathay Volunteer Fire Department. Eventually, the family moved from the farmstead into Fessenden. Chris continued as a CP conductor for over 10 years and volunteered for 11 years as a fireman on the Cathay and Fessenden Fire Departments. In 2008, Chris and Jenny were introduced to the world of EMS. Chris quickly realized that this was the perfect job for him. It allowed him to take care of people, give to the community, and have work that pushed him both physically and intellectually. He excelled in EMS as a provider, an instructor, and a mentor. Everyone who worked with him and received care from him experienced his compassion and knowledgeable care.

Chris was taken too soon from this life. He is sadly survived in this world by his wife of 21 years, Jenny, his daughters, Breyana, Portland, OR and Emma, his son, Seth, his mother, Donna, Tacoma, WA;  his sisters Melodee (Martin) Gaertner, Georgia; Mary Jamison (John) Olalla, WA , his brothers Jay Iverson and Curtis Iverson, Tacoma, WA, and a multitude of friends.

Chris was preceded in death by his father, Clayton Iverson.

http://www.parkwayfuneral.com

Bonnie Kay Cook, 63, died Nov. 18, 2018, as the result of Air Ambulance crash. A joint celebration honoring all who perished will be held 10 am Monday, November 26 at the Bismarck Event Center.

Bonnie was born May 25, 1955, in Richardton, ND.  She grew up on a rural farm by Killdeer. The oldest of 15 brother and sisters, she quickly became a second mom to her brothers and sisters, showing love and dedication for her family and her work.

Bonnie met and eventually married the love of her life, Perry, August of 1979.  They resided in Killdeer until they moved to Bismarck so she could pursue a career in Nursing at the University of Mary. 

In 1992, she became a registered nurse and worked at St. Alexius in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) where she excelled in serving the babies who needed a higher level of care. She joined the NICU transport team, began instructing S.T.A.B.L.E. class onsite and via telemedicine to local and rural nurses.  She also was an active member of the Nursing Communications Ambassadors, serving on the shared governance committee.

Bonnie’s dedication at work was only elapsed by her love and devotion to her family.  She enjoyed spending weekends and vacations visiting and playing with her eight grandchildren to cherishing every moment of life.  Bonnie loved to do crafts and share recipes with all her friends and family.  Her strength and determination were infectious, and she volunteered throughout the Bismarck area in numerous capacities.

The family asks that in lieu of flowers or gifts that donations be made for the future purchase of Neonatal Transport Isolette.  Bonnie’s passion and goal to equip nurses with the best equipment to increase the survival rate of neonates.   Donations should be made out to the CHI foundation; mailed to C/O Perry Cook, 7009 Golden Crest Rd, Bismarck, ND 58503.

https://bismarckfuneralhome.com




Chris Iverson, paramedic, age 47 of Mandan

Bonnie Cook, NICU nurse, age 63 of Bismarck

Todd Lasky, pilot, age 48 of Bismarck



MANDAN, N.D. — The Morton County Sheriff's Office here has released the names of three people who died Sunday night, Nov. 18, when a Bismarck Air Medical plane crashed northwest of Mandan.

The three victims are Todd Lasky, 48, of Bismarck, the pilot of the plane; Bonnie Cook, 63, of Bismarck, a nurse; and Chris Iverson, 47, of Mandan, a paramedic.

According to a release from CHI St. Alexius Health, the plane, which was flying to Williston to assist in a patient transport, went down prior to arrival.

The three victims were the only people aboard the plane when it crashed.

Around 11 p.m. Sunday, the Bismarck Airport tower reported the aircraft was missing about a half-hour after taking flight.

Searchers with the Morton County Sheriff's Office, Mandan Rural Fire Department, Civil Air Patrol and an Air Force Rescue Team located the crash site around 2 a.m. Monday, Nov. 19.

Cellphone forensics and radar analysis helped track the plane's last location, according to a Morton County press release.

Morton County spokeswoman Maxine Herr said the crash site is about 15 to 20 miles northwest of Mandan. The fuselage and other debris are spread over "a large area" in a "remote pasture" about 3 miles west of state Highway 25 northwest of Mandan, according to the press release.

The National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration will investigate the incident. The cause of the crash remains under investigation.

The plane was a Cessna 441 turboprop that was built in 1982, according to FAA records.

Original article ➤ http://www.grandforksherald.com



BISMARCK, N.D. — An air ambulance on its way to pick up a patient crashed shortly after taking off in North Dakota, killing all three people on board, and military officials involved in the response said the plane may have broken up in midair.

The Cessna 441 Conquest II Bismarck Air Medical airplane took off at about 10:30 p.m. Sunday and crashed shortly after in a field about 20 miles northwest of Bismarck. Air traffic control officials lost contact with the plane about 11 p.m., county spokeswoman Maxine Herr said.

CHI St. Alexius Health and Bismarck Air Medical said in a joint statement that the pilot, a paramedic and a registered nurse had been heading to Williston to pick up a patient. The statement did not provide their names.

"It is a sad day here for both of our organizations," Kurt Schley, president of CHI St. Alexius Health Bismarck, and Dan Schaefer, operations chief for Bismarck Air Medical and Metro Area Ambulance Operations, said. "We are grieving for the family members of those who were on board."

The Morton County Sheriff's Office, Civil Air Patrol and Air Force Rescue Coordination Center based at Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida located the crash scene around early Monday using radar and cellphone technology, Herr said.

An analysis by the Air Force team indicated the plane might have broken up at about 14,000 feet, and "that corresponded with what they found on the ground," said Civil Air Patrol Lt. Col. Sean Johnson.

He said he didn't want to speculate on the cause. The National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration were investigating. FAA records show that the Cessna 441 turboprop was built in 1982. Bismarck Air Medical is listed as the registered owner.

Dan Schaefer, Bismarck Air Medical and Metro Area Ambulance operations chief, said the crash leaves Bismarck Air Medical with two aircraft, with which "we'll be fine."

Schaefer also said Sunday's crash is "extremely rare."

"Never had it happen," he said.

The weather from 11 p.m. Sunday to midnight Monday, as observed at the Bismarck Airport, had low hanging clouds and light snow showers moving in, said Nathan Heinert, meteorologist with the Bismarck National Weather Service. He also said visibility had dropped to 5 miles.

Gov. Doug Burgum issued a statement Monday expressing condolences to the families, friends and colleagues of the victims.

"We are deeply saddened by the news of last night's airplane crash that claimed the lives of the pilot, a paramedic and a registered nurse — individuals who dedicated their lives to saving the lives of others," he said. "We are forever grateful for their service."

Original article can be found here ➤ https://missoulian.com

Pilot Todd Lasky

BISMARCK, N.D. — Three people died Sunday night when a Metro Area Ambulance plane crashed northwest of Mandan.

According to a release from CHI St. Alexius Health, the plane, which was flying to Williston to assist in a patient transport, went down prior to arrival. A Bismarck Air Medical pilot and paramedic, along with a CHI St. Alexius Health registered nurse, were on board. There were no survivors.

Around 11 p.m. Sunday, the Bismarck Airport tower reported the aircraft as missing about a half-hour after taking flight.

Search efforts by the Morton County Sheriff's Office, Mandan Rural Fire Department, Civil Air Patrol and an Air Force Rescue Team located the crash site around 2 a.m. Monday.

Cell phone forensics and radar analysis helped track the plane's last location, according to a Morton County press release.

Morton County spokeswoman Maxine Herr said the crash site is about 15 to 20 miles northwest of Mandan. The fuselage and other debris are spread over "a large area" in a "remote pasture" about 3 miles west of North Dakota Highway 25 northwest of Mandan, according to the press release.

The National Transport Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration will investigate the incident. The cause of the crash is under investigation.

Chelsey Kralicek, marketing specialist for CHI St. Alexius Health in Bismarck, said the hospital is offering employee assistance program services through its professional counselors to employees and their families.

In a joint statement, Kurt Schley, CHI St. Alexius Health Bismarck president, and Dan Schaefer, Bismarck Air Medical and Metro Area Ambulance operations chief, stated: “It is a sad day here for both of our organizations. We are grieving for the family members of those who were on board.”

"The names of the individuals are not being released until families are notified. We are focused on supporting the families and associates from both organizations. We ask for your prayers and support at this very difficult time for all."

Bismarck Mayor Steve Bakken offered a statement on behalf of the Bismarck City Commission following news of the crash:

“We are deeply saddened by the tragic loss of life of these individuals who selflessly dedicate themselves to saving the lives of others, and provide this vital service to our communities. We send our heartfelt sympathies and prayers to the families, friends and colleagues in the medical and first responder communities.”

Gov. Doug Burgum also offered words in the wake of the crash. 

"We are deeply saddened by the news of last night’s airplane crash that claimed the lives of the pilot, a paramedic and a registered nurse – individuals who dedicated their lives to saving the lives of others. We are forever grateful for their service," the governor said in a statement. "Kathryn and I extend our deepest condolences and heartfelt prayers to their families, friends and colleagues in the medical and first responder communities.”

Sen. John Hoeven, R-N.D., also issued a statement. 

“Mikey and I are deeply saddened to hear of the air ambulance crash last night near Mandan," Hoeven said. "Those on board were committed to serving others and providing life-saving medical care. We extend our condolences to their families and loved ones.”

Original article can be found here ➤ https://missoulian.com

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — An air ambulance on its way to pick up a patient crashed shortly after taking off in North Dakota, killing all three people on board, and military officials involved in the response said the plane may have broken up in midair.

The twin-engine Bismarck Air Medical airplane took off about 10:30 p.m. Sunday and crashed shortly after in a field about 20 miles (32 kilometers) northwest of Bismarck. Air traffic control officials lost contact with the plane about 11 p.m., county spokeswoman Maxine Herr said.

CHI St. Alexius Health and Bismarck Air Medical said in a joint statement that the pilot, a paramedic and a registered nurse had been heading to Williston to pick up a patient. The statement did not provide their names.

"It is a sad day here for both of our organizations," Kurt Schley, president of CHI St. Alexius Health Bismarck, and Dan Schaefer, operations chief for Bismarck Air Medical and Metro Area Ambulance Operations, said. "We are grieving for the family members of those who were on board."

The Morton County Sheriff's Office, Civil Air Patrol and Air Force Rescue Coordination Center based at Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida located the crash scene around early Monday using radar and cellphone technology, Herr said.

An analysis by the Air Force team indicated the plane might have broken up at about 14,000 feet (4,300 meters), and "that corresponded with what they found on the ground," said Civil Air Patrol Lt. Col. Sean Johnson.

He said he didn't want to speculate on the cause. The National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration were investigating. FAA records show that the Cessna 441 turboprop was built in 1982. Bismarck Air Medical is listed as the registered owner.

National Weather Service meteorologist Jeff Schild said there was light snow in the area at the time but no hazardous weather. Johnson said there was the potential for fog or haze.

Gov. Doug Burgum issued a statement Monday expressing condolences to the families, friends and colleagues of the victims.

"We are deeply saddened by the news of last night's airplane crash that claimed the lives of the pilot, a paramedic and a registered nurse — individuals who dedicated their lives to saving the lives of others," he said. "We are forever grateful for their service."

Original article can be found here ➤ https://www.tribdem.com

52 comments:

daveyl123 said...

Snow is a good indicator. Wing/Airframe Icing or engine power loss due to inertial separator failure or non-activation of that system are possible factors. The old standbys: Spatial Disorientation, or possibly fatigue, will be considered. These pilots fly at all hours, and sleep is a secondary issue. Pitot Tube or Static Port ice/obstruction will cause headaches if you're in IMC.

Ill take a stab: Iced wings.

Anonymous said...

Davey ... Can you explain how the inertial separator failure theory on the Cessna 441 would work?

Unknown said...

Davey couldn't be more wrong. 1. Airframe icing doesn't explain the widespread debris field. 2. A C441 has Garrett engines...they do not use inertial seperators..they are not reverse flow engines like a PT6. 3. Unlikely a blocked pitot tube would cause loss of control unless the pilot was extremely inexperienced. 4. Having flown fixed wing EMS for 30 years..sleep and rest periods are never a secondary consideration.

Q. Bayless said...

I'm not a Conquest pilot but in the King Air the inertial separator, part of the engine anti-ice system, prevents ice from entering the engine intake of the PT6 turboprop.

Anonymous said...

That's what I was getting at ... This was a Garrett not a PT6 ... The PT6 was on the Cessna 425 and yes hat inertial separators

Anonymous said...

Ice wouldn’t likely be a problem as it was at cruise or near in cruise climb. No distress call. Either loss of control for as yet undeterrmined reasons or past aircraft damage resulted in compromise to aircraft structure that took time to manifest itself.

Anonymous said...


In flight break up would indicate loss of control. If the FAA can’t identify the cause they will say the conditions were conducive for carburetor ice and he was’t using carburetor heat.

FireMedic447 said...

Turboprops don't have carburetors...

Anonymous said...

If we had access to the FlightAware tracking that might give a clue but this operation had it blocked from public view.

daveyl123 said...

I'm only guessing. I don't know if the engines on the -441 are equipped with those devices (Inertial Separators) but if they are so-equipped and the pilot does not activate the system or they fail, if there's snow present, you could lose power. The plane falling in pieces would indicate over-stress, and that occurs from loss of control due to spatial disorientation or heavy turbulence. Remember that the report of the aircraft wreckage was an initial evaluation. I'm guessing iced wings are the probable cause.

PLEASE don't carve that guess in stone.

daveyl123 said...

Anon, I didn't know if the -441 had inertial separators. In any case, my guess is still wing ice.

Anonymous said...

One newspaper article reports that according to radar returns it probably broke up at 14,000 feet. The location of the wreckage puts it on or near its flight path between bismarck and its destination, Williston ND., and about 30 miles from lts departure airport, Bismarck ND.

Anonymous said...

When you use Carb Heat on Left engine, and activate inertial separator on right engine ….You can expect Aileron Buzz and Mach tuck

daveyl123 said...

14,000, eh? Good climb gradient, so power would not be an issue. Pressurization/rapid decompression could have factored, but the differential at 14k would not create a huge problem. You can still breathe, just don't play tennis. Entry Door problems? One thing's for sure, if there was a catastrophic structural failure at 14,000, the wreckage trail will take quite a while to research and locate all the components. I'll stick with icing. Hopefully, the NTSB will publish their guess within our lifespans.

Anonymous said...

I just hope it's not an issue with the tail.

Anonymous said...

Icing doesn't make much sense at all. The airplane can handle a ton of ice. Plus they were light, and I fly these almost every day. I can tell you that particular airplane had a gross weight kit phase 1 and 2 and probably a useful load of 4k and about 1,800lbs after the fuel required for that flight. I am worried it's the tail as there is a major inspection for the tail components. Structural failure due to tail failure as it seems to have broken apart near the wing spar .

Citation Driver said...

Link to February C441 accident. Similarities?
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018_02_22_archive.html

daveyl123 said...

I'd like to see some PIREPs, or AIRMETs/SIGMETs for that route. I never hauled ice when I flew IMC, but I've seen some aircraft that have, with their Known Ice systems being overtaxed. The TBM crash back east was an example, and a P-210 in Southern California was force landed wearing a beard of thick rime on the prop spinner. The old Air Force Joke about a base in North Dakota went "Why not Minot? Freezin's the reason!" I think that freezin' may have been a reason here.

daveyl123 said...

About the tail issue: You don't place much faith in the FAA, the Air Ambulance Industry, Cessna or Part 135 Maintenance personnel. This is not the DeHavilland Comet. These are aircraft that have flown millions of miles reliably. If there was a dangerous anomaly with any component, you can bet your life (And you do..) that this problem will be dealt with, and the safety of the flying public will be assured. The FAA would not jeopardize passengers or crew by allowing unsafe aircraft to operate in air commerce, or on Part 91 flights.

Anonymous said...

Man I love the "experts" on this site! "The airplane can handle a ton of ice..." You think boots are the end all be all...REALLY??? Carburetor ice...It's a turboprop! COME ON!!! "...it's the tail". WHAT EXACTLY IS A TAIL. C'mon, man!

The forecasts in that area were very inaccurate that night. There was an AIRMET for moderate ice.
Old airplane+inaccurate forecast+moderate icing=Disaster. 'nuf said. RIP.

Gerry said...

Feb. 22 2018 441 crashed in Indiana shrotly after takeoff, pilot reported airplane was uncontrollable and had trim problems, another crashed in 2017 was uncontrollable too. Twice in the late 1970's FAA grounded 441's because on mid-air break up's Cessna made modifications to tail area, also very serious and costly inspections supposed to be done to this airplane (don't know peramiters of said inspections) yes it has a history of tail section problems uncontrollablity and in flight breakups, this accident looks like it might be another wait and see what NTSB has to say.

daveyl123 said...

I'm taking a stab at the probable cause, which looks like icing. I've been doing this type of research for 30 years, so the old nose can smell out certain factors that could combine to cause mishaps. I don't KNOW if ice is the cause, but it SMELLS like ice is the cause. If this plane is such a death trap, why do pilots fly it? Why would the FAA not withdraw the Airworthiness Certificate on the -441, and demand a re-certification? Are pilots so stupid these days, they'll fly aircraft they KNOW are going to develop control problems, and break up during flights? Are company chief pilots and dispatchers so cavalier about their staffing and company image. they'll allow these planes to be dispatched for revenue flights? Financially speaking, Insurance Companies would refuse to insure the aircraft if it had such a history, and savvy passengers would cancel their flights if they knew their plane was a Conquest.

Anonymous said...

I didn't know Todd, but fatigue for a few seconds at the wrong time can give the best pilot a brain hiccup. Add ice, disorientation for a
few seconds, switching tanks,.metal failure, the list goes on. At 14,000 plenty on time to recover from unexpected yaw, roll, IF controls and tail is still attached and working. Time and investigations will bring some kind of ruling.
The one thing all can do for Todd and his crew is make sure we do a REALLY THOROUGH flight plan AND pre-flight. Only the few are protected with Martin-Baker.
A Sterile cockpit during takeoff and landing. I realize Todd was the single pilot on the controls. How many of us might have a crew member chattering about the Vikings, as we're getting things trimmed for cruise, watching the n1 on an engine, tower calls, etc. For Todd, fly with precision as he no doubt was doing down to the last few seconds.

Anonymous said...

Ice wouldn’t cause an inflight break up at 14,000’. The radar tracks shows a slow descent then straight down. The initial reports indicate multiple radar targets. I’d say some sort of onboard explosion. Medical oxygen tank leak etc. There was no distress call or other communications with ATC after they were cleared to 14,000 and direct Williston.

daveyl123 said...

Airplanes suffer in flight breakups for other reasons, such as spatial disorientation, turbulence, aerobatic over-stress and, in the case of the aforementioned Comet, design features. Ice will create conditions conducive to breakups, with pilots struggling to regain control of their aircraft after an unexpected deviation of pitch or roll parameters. The structural failure may not occur directly from ice accretion, but the effort to overcome the effects of ice could prompt control deflections sufficient to shed portions of the aircraft.

Anonymous said...

Some people just don't give do they Davey!

daveyl123 said...

Like I said, I'm guessing what happened. It's not a matter of 'giving-in' to other views. I'll gladly accede to the opinions of others, but ONLY after I've seen the data needed to compile an accident sequence. PIREPs, AIRMETs/SIGMETs, Route Forecasts, etc. Were any distress calls or Emergency Transponder Codes transmitted? Did RADAR paint the aircraft maneuvering in any way contrary to assigned altitude or heading/route prior to the break up? The NTSB will not be forthcoming with this information unless phones are ringing off the hooks, or folks are marching around the offices of the FAA or Congress. Then they'll fast-track the investigation to satisfy whoever is making a fuss. I might ask; Have YOU contacted the FAA, Cessna or the NTSB with your assertions? 'Seems to me you should be ringing some phones if you're so concerned about these -441 in flight break ups.

Anonymous said...

"Some people just don't give do they Davey!"

Now that there was funny.

Anonymous said...

having worked on a number of Cessna 441 I would bet on a prop blade separation and struck the fuselage leading to massage structure failure.

daveyl123 said...

Unless the NTSB is missing the boat by not reporting these in-flight breakups you folks are citing (Or propeller problems, for that matter..) there's not ONE problem with the tail listed as the probable cause for each Cessna 441 Fatal accident going back to 1987. There are quite a few Loss of Control by Pilots in IMC, but they were not experiencing the anomalies you've described. There IS a fatal -441 crash attributed to Icing, and the subsequent loss of control by the pilot, though. Whomever mentioned the Indiana mishap, THAT looks like spatial disorientation.

Anonymous said...

The radar track on Flight Tracker showed a normal climb, normal airspeed, heading 309 until 13,900 feet, last radar hit showed heading of 188, then nothing.

Anonymous said...

How does the NTSB get any work done when all of its expert investigators are looking for carburetor ice in turboprop crashes here in the comments?

Anonymous said...

Yup, your right davey. nough said. Anonymous said "some never give up" even when they don't know.

daveyl123 said...

Please continue providing information about this accident. The media quickly loses interest in these events, and they're sometimes woefully ignorant about aviation in general. The NTSB keeps their research and data on the QT for quite awhile, with their final reports taking years to publish. No one involved with the actual flight--Controllers, mechanics, FBOs, fuelers, FSS/Flight Watch Specialists, etc--will offer their inputs, as they are fearful of legal difficulties, or being listed among contributing causal data, so they'll clam up. I'm not a tech wiz. I don't know how to obtain records of forecasts, SIGMETs, AIRMETs or PIREPs. If you know how to obtain such data, please provide that information.

Unknown said...

This Aircraft (N441CX) was involved in a nose gear collapse due to running off a runway back in January 2005 due to wet runway according to a NTSB report I found.

Anonymous said...

Try this for historical TAF and METAR:
https://www.ogimet.com/metars.phtml.en

arm-chair-pilot/CFI said...

Folks, as an expert arm-chair-pilot/CFI, I have not yet given up on "carb ice" as to a contributing factor. Time will tell.

Anonymous said...

No carburetors on a Garrett turboprop 441.

Anonymous said...

Carburetor ice due to failure to use the inertial separators and she just choked down.

Anonymous said...

Autopilot servo failure in IMC and unusual attitude at night. Over stressed the aircraft on recovery.

Anonymous said...

Or ... Over stress occurred on impact.

Tom Ibach said...

attitude indicator failure...dont know if this plane had been modified with glass, and people...do your research a bit...inertial separators?? c'mon

daveyl123 said...

Tom Ibach, I didn't know if the -441 had Inertial Separators. If it did, then those would be considered for research into the cause. This process takes elimination: I would express the same "C'Mon" toward these folks who describe these planes as death traps that will disintegrate upon contact with airflow. The type had a single fatal crash due to trim actuator failure, prompting a grounding of the aircraft by the FAA. Another incident with vibration occurred after a modification, with a subsequent mod that has stood the test of time. There have not been any crashes attributed to Trim Actuator failures since that mod. These planes coming down in pieces are definitely cause for concern, but planes come down in pieces for many other reasons.

Anonymous said...

A wealth of information in these post. Aileron buzz and Mach Tuck would not have occurred to me as possibilities. Great stuff.

Anonymous said...

Davey, the tail section of this airplane has had a lot of issues. This airplane had previous damage history resulting in spar damage, and repair by very reputable shops. Prior to the crash the skin was wrinkled and there were potential prexisting damage from previous issue. I would start there.

Anonymous said...

I know this because I almost bought this airplane.

Darren Sarvis said...

The CE-441 Conquest had early issues with elevator/trim tab flutter, with the loss of a ship on a demonstration flight for a prospective customer. Later and more recently (1990's) there have been losses of some CE-421 due to tab or counterbalance issues, flutter, failure (I have to look up the old reports). All these events I mention led to fairly rapid in-flight breakups.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Davey on the ice guess. I haven't talked to anybody at the NTSB nor do I even know anybody there but I guarantee they have ruled out carb heat as being any issue in this crash. lol

Anonymous said...

A Conquest 2 has loads of power, is very stable and at the weight of the aircraft at the time could carry a lot of ice with ease. Prop dome failure is my guess. Not blade loss but rather blades went flat.

Anonymous said...

Lateral torque stresses evident in wreckage photos..

Anonymous said...

The problem with ice is not the weight on the wing rather the disruption of air flow over the leading edge.

Anonymous said...

lateral torque is correct. Prop dome failure?