tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post8260182068144387063..comments2024-03-26T09:35:29.969-04:00Comments on Kathryn's Report: Cessna R182 Skylane RG, N3652C: Fatal accident occurred February 26, 2021 near Lee Gilmer Memorial Airport (KGVL), Gainesville, Hall County, GeorgiaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-11569043379777867752023-02-02T19:20:33.728-05:002023-02-02T19:20:33.728-05:00I currently fly a R182 and for 23 years and 3K hrs...I currently fly a R182 and for 23 years and 3K hrs. I fly in Chicago in IMC regularly and never once had to use carb heat. Maybe I have a freak plane but fellow owners on the old CPA forum say the same thing. Cab ice happened regularly? I call BS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-10949294365294486582021-03-23T19:33:04.287-04:002021-03-23T19:33:04.287-04:00Pilot was given all of the info he needed for auto...Pilot was given all of the info he needed for autopilot setup before takeoff. Unfortunate that he did not manage to get it engaged, for whatever reason.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-51685647320769104232021-03-23T18:50:45.439-04:002021-03-23T18:50:45.439-04:00Preliminary report suggests that Bryan is correct ...Preliminary report suggests that Bryan is correct that spatial disorientation was underway when the pilot was communicating with controllers, while autopilot was not yet engaged.<br /><br />The pilot had deviated off course to 230 degrees at his 1800 foot "say altitude" read back instead of being established on the 140 degree departure heading he had been instructed to fly.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-12158535544940022021-03-23T18:20:32.588-04:002021-03-23T18:20:32.588-04:00Preliminary report confirms ATC was communicating,...Preliminary report confirms ATC was communicating, had pilot ident and gave an altimeter setting as they passed through 1800 feet just after takeoff. Required turning the knob and looking at the kollsman window, went into the first dive around that time.<br /><br /><i>"Pilot established communication with the satellite radar controller. The controller instructed the pilot to “ident” and “sayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-55628862248004072512021-03-23T18:07:50.920-04:002021-03-23T18:07:50.920-04:00Preliminary is released in CAROL:
https://data.nt...Preliminary is released in CAROL:<br /><br />https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/102681/pdf<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-55484176209711864982021-03-05T12:14:51.129-05:002021-03-05T12:14:51.129-05:00It is possible to know whether he had radio comm w...It is possible to know whether he had radio comm with ATC. Pilot made his CTAF announcement for takeoff and was expected to get in contact with Atlanta TRACON after airborne since there is no tower on the field. FAA's controller recordings will resolve the comm question. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-68219357851067712602021-03-05T10:01:24.830-05:002021-03-05T10:01:24.830-05:00Plausible story line, but we will never know that ...Plausible story line, but we will never know that level of detail.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-32548742047951004472021-03-04T20:15:07.787-05:002021-03-04T20:15:07.787-05:00Based on available data I think ATC gave the pilot...Based on available data I think ATC gave the pilot a frequency change as he was attempting to engage the autopilot, which may not have been set up properly before departure. This led to spatial disorientation. There may have been other distractions in the cabin.Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-26304133316047198792021-03-04T14:08:42.232-05:002021-03-04T14:08:42.232-05:00on "departure there will be a limitation on m...on "departure there will be a limitation on minimum AGL altitude for autopilot engagement, usually 400 feet in larger airplanes, but often 1,000 feet in lighter airplanes." https://airfactsjournal.com/2020/02/when-to-disengage-the-autopilot/gretnabearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17532199082129778356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-73898529853650742562021-03-04T14:03:26.116-05:002021-03-04T14:03:26.116-05:00" IFR-trained pilots " does not equate e..." IFR-trained pilots " does not equate experienced and recurrant training IFR-trained pilots. As the record attest, IFR-trained pilots with tens of thousands of current hours have succumb to Spatial disorientation.<br />Also, on "departure there will be a limitation on minimum AGL altitude for autopilot engagement, usually 400 feet in larger airplanes, but often 1,000 feet in gretnabearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17532199082129778356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-61982964501306035022021-03-04T09:30:08.112-05:002021-03-04T09:30:08.112-05:00Not foolish at all, but rather entirely relevant: ...Not foolish at all, but rather entirely relevant: thinking you are capable of handling everything is what gets pilots killed. Humility -- knowing you are vulnerable -- forms the basis of good aeronautical decisions. And when you find yourself in a situation for which you're ill-prepared, a successful outcome requires nimbleness that comes from experience and skills.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-83922051025196175952021-03-04T08:59:49.292-05:002021-03-04T08:59:49.292-05:00Foolish response. So it's best to have no plan...Foolish response. So it's best to have no plans whatsoever? I think I will ignore your sage advice when I am flying.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05957213079913927156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-86118686810367055442021-03-04T08:25:18.567-05:002021-03-04T08:25:18.567-05:00Spatial disorientation is powerful and can overwhe...Spatial disorientation is powerful and can overwhelm even experienced pilots. "Understanding" is -- unfortunately -- insufficient in some situations because "forcing oneself to dismiss the sensations" is only part of the solution: the pilot must be able to quickly replace those sensations with proficiency at interpreting and responding to the instruments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-4357135418722641712021-03-04T01:39:15.894-05:002021-03-04T01:39:15.894-05:00Thanks for your reply, I wrote the above.
What I ...Thanks for your reply, I wrote the above.<br /><br />What I meant was how come any IFR-trained pilot doesn't avoid what you described, maneuvering, when sensation and instruments don't match and then levels the wings/tuns on the autopilot and calls ATC to advise that they can't fly the STAR/SIDS or whatever? No A-game needed.<br /><br />This here wasn't even inadvertent VMC-to_IMCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-17389236848302517982021-03-03T20:38:23.835-05:002021-03-03T20:38:23.835-05:00Re: "...the possibility of IMC disorientation...Re: "...the possibility of IMC disorientation make me cringe"<br /><br />Unfortunately, scenarios like this are all-too-common: accidents in IMC encounters during maneuvering flight (as opposed to a stable climb or descent through a layer, or a brief cruise through some enroute scattered clouds). Maneuvering flight often occurs close to the ground, and the maneuvers, accelerations, and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-12160959578429698152021-03-03T18:41:45.056-05:002021-03-03T18:41:45.056-05:00The comment about adjacent data points that don...The comment about adjacent data points that don't change altitude but have big rates was made because of the pair at 23:09:42 and 23:09:46 in the Adsbexchange track at the end of the first dive. <br /><br />Looking closer, those adjacent data points are some kind of glitch. They have identical altitude, speed and vertical rate information. The duplicate info at 23:09:46 was when the first Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-46986699373719666852021-03-03T17:47:23.995-05:002021-03-03T17:47:23.995-05:00Without knowing what happened here, some parts of ...Without knowing what happened here, some parts of the discussions revolving around the possibility of IMC disorientation make me cringe.<br /><br />Shouldn't any IFR-trained pilot, even if not current and proficient, be able to fly on instruments straight, be it level or climbing? Not an approach and landing, just straight and above terrain. They know to trust the instruments and from the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-60792432964974317632021-03-03T12:28:47.141-05:002021-03-03T12:28:47.141-05:00Before going too far with vertical rates, examine ...Before going too far with vertical rates, examine the vertical rates when they were about halfway around the total track. Vertical rates are large, but next data point reports little to no altitude change.<br /><br />Those halfway point rates cannot represent reality. Be careful using the rates for G-force calculations anywhere along the track.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-2881400944780407502021-03-03T12:20:19.428-05:002021-03-03T12:20:19.428-05:00The first dive shows a descent rate of 8,000 fpm (...The first dive shows a descent rate of 8,000 fpm (!). This is a vertical speed of about 78 knots. The horizontal speed (ie: projected over the surface) is 146 knots. This corresponds to an airspeed of about 165 knots, (assuming no wind).<br /><br />5 to 10 seconds later, they are in a 4,000 fpm climb.<br /><br />Can anyone calculate the G-forces associated with an 11- or 12,000 fpm change over 6 Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-8309119791986813202021-03-03T12:07:02.348-05:002021-03-03T12:07:02.348-05:00Mapping does add a lot. Look at the Radarbox graph...Mapping does add a lot. Look at the Radarbox graph if you didn't already see the altitude trace. Keep in mind that the recorded ADS-B data does not include the pass through the trees. <br /><br />At the end of the data, they climbed to 2400, slowed to 30 knots ground speed, recovered to 51 knots at 2300', got below where receivers could pick up any more ADS-B data and went through the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-81059930080560986852021-03-03T11:45:32.958-05:002021-03-03T11:45:32.958-05:00I know you weren't implying inflight breakup. ...I know you weren't implying inflight breakup. But lots of consumers of this discussion are interpreting the "large debris field" as such. This was NOT a large debris field.<br /><br />Thank you for the maps links: very helpful to understanding that this was not a stall-spin, and likely a high speed dive, perhaps with an attempt at a last-minute pull-up upon breaking out of the cloudAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-90818138902753889312021-03-03T11:32:26.430-05:002021-03-03T11:32:26.430-05:00315 feet to get to the ravine from the wingtip cap...315 feet to get to the ravine from the wingtip cap location. <br /><br />Locations were mapped to provide substantiation that it was not another "smoking hole" stall spin impact.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-7291086114037653332021-03-03T11:24:16.617-05:002021-03-03T11:24:16.617-05:00Posting of the locations did not include any sugge...Posting of the locations did not include any suggestion of inflight breakup. Without question they were going through the trees.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-75812836388384977572021-03-03T11:24:11.580-05:002021-03-03T11:24:11.580-05:00For all the crap the Cirrus gets on here, being ab...For all the crap the Cirrus gets on here, being able to pull that chute at 500+ AGL is awfully nice in situations like this.Kennethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16169913695764689966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-23426224790034923592021-03-03T11:15:49.360-05:002021-03-03T11:15:49.360-05:00232 feet is the distance from the first to the las...232 feet is the distance from the first to the last pin. If the plane broke up in flight, it was very late. However, this can also be explained by contact with trees at a very high speed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com