tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post2746699183209612647..comments2024-03-28T21:15:11.065-04:00Comments on Kathryn's Report: Cessna 172H Skyhawk, N8845Z: Fatal accident occurred May 14, 2022 in Miami-Dade County, FloridaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-30254271706845550172022-06-13T15:28:48.524-04:002022-06-13T15:28:48.524-04:00So he was flying into the wind over a wide flat be...So he was flying into the wind over a wide flat beach and surf and lost power so turned inland and landed downwind without flaps on a narrow busy street/bridge . . . exactly what I would have done.Stanford W. Johnseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17783154080472918884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-15934549677503799062022-06-09T10:34:44.596-04:002022-06-09T10:34:44.596-04:00Unlike some fuel selectors that have a fuel passag...Unlike some fuel selectors that have a fuel passageway through a rotating element, this s/n 17255495 C172's selector valve would be the P/N 0513120-8 design that uses a rotating cam lobe on the stem to manipulate spring loaded balls on left and right ports arranged 180 degrees from each other (opposite), inside the valve.<br /><br />In the "both" position, the off-center cam Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-5247505111547663352022-06-08T01:20:53.965-04:002022-06-08T01:20:53.965-04:00Preliminary is out. Fuel selector was between Both...Preliminary is out. Fuel selector was between Both and Right. All else looked normal. Small amount of fuel flowed out when fuel line was disconnected from carb. Does the fuel stop flowing (or reduce flow) when the selector is between detents? This looks like the issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-24241931138449690402022-06-05T23:03:19.398-04:002022-06-05T23:03:19.398-04:00Probably primacy. It's where he came from so h...Probably primacy. It's where he came from so his instinct was to return in that direction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-14513166961171447012022-06-04T23:09:01.564-04:002022-06-04T23:09:01.564-04:00Yes. That’s what I thought
Yes. That’s what I thought <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-38712472794584467162022-05-26T17:55:46.329-04:002022-05-26T17:55:46.329-04:00100% common SENSE and empathy. I have to agree. My...100% common SENSE and empathy. I have to agree. My condolenses to the family. RIP.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-91916264675474453402022-05-25T12:20:18.984-04:002022-05-25T12:20:18.984-04:00Hard to judge, don't know if they were all goo...Hard to judge, don't know if they were all good swimmers. The trip was to the Keys. If one of them was not a good swimmer and greatly feared drowning, there probably would have been discussion before the trip about making every effort to land on a roadway vs. water ditching.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-73042210936939823072022-05-23T22:18:57.223-04:002022-05-23T22:18:57.223-04:00if your a pretty good glider pilot the golf course...if your a pretty good glider pilot the golf course was doable. but that long straight highway was right below him looking like a runway. you only get one shot from that low altitude first choice is only choice you cant switch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-62425678154660422602022-05-23T22:09:34.726-04:002022-05-23T22:09:34.726-04:00i dont know much about motors im just a glider pil...i dont know much about motors im just a glider pilotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-5913576782197628302022-05-23T22:07:34.078-04:002022-05-23T22:07:34.078-04:00golf course was definitely good he was within glid...golf course was definitely good he was within gliding distance. but it was smaller than a long strait stretch of highway sitting right below him and not easy to bring it in his scan with all his attention elsewhere. and it would take a great deal of precision to dead stick it on there. only get one chance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-72134676950412155962022-05-23T20:57:19.536-04:002022-05-23T20:57:19.536-04:00It's clear you aren't a pilot. "slam...It's clear you aren't a pilot. "slammed the wheels down and locked up the brakes?" Really? "...but he kept on gliding..." He "kept on gliding" because the wing was still flying. Aeronautics 101. Slamming the wheels down would only result in porpoising and likely killing everyone on board.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-44534690740981837932022-05-23T14:27:34.522-04:002022-05-23T14:27:34.522-04:0012.6 percent slope converts to 7.2 degrees.
12.6 percent slope converts to 7.2 degrees.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-12397472472433236322022-05-23T14:22:20.189-04:002022-05-23T14:22:20.189-04:00Interesting to evaluate. What glideslope angle, th...Interesting to evaluate. What glideslope angle, though? Working from the 1200' altitude point before the turn while still abeam of 81st street, the travel distance to La Gorce Country Club is 1.8 statute miles (9500 feet).<br /><br />Percent slope = 1200/9500 X 100 = 12.6°. Kinda steep for a straight in, could be done if proficient at doing a slip or if a turn was added to bleed altitude and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-84694065039493566722022-05-23T10:49:59.458-04:002022-05-23T10:49:59.458-04:00Armchair pilot here - I wasn't there to be mak...Armchair pilot here - I wasn't there to be making decisions - but why the U-turn back to the north? It appears the pilot lost almost 500' of altitude making that turn. Starting from 1200', that's a huge loss. With only about a 10-degree turn right, he could have aimed for the La Gorce Country Club, which appears to have enough open ground, reasonably straight, to attempt a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-37544619673084102232022-05-23T09:45:29.412-04:002022-05-23T09:45:29.412-04:00Being the PIC of T337D, with three passengers and ...Being the PIC of T337D, with three passengers and surviving an off field landing where the choices were a highway in the Baja, the drink or the desert complete with giant boulders and twenty foot tall Socorro Cactus'...I chose....The desert! Didn't even break a fingernail. It was Very exciting ....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-72300907991800734912022-05-23T06:12:23.239-04:002022-05-23T06:12:23.239-04:00Depending on how the power loss progressed, he may...Depending on how the power loss progressed, he may have started the turn back for a problem initially noticed as a change in sound from the engine or by instrument indication that rapidly turned into engine completely out. Passenger statements to investigators will provide insight.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-66659854260219924102022-05-22T11:02:29.982-04:002022-05-22T11:02:29.982-04:00Best option was the golf course to the west. Why ...Best option was the golf course to the west. Why did the pilot no go for it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-50816074557960196652022-05-22T05:37:36.811-04:002022-05-22T05:37:36.811-04:00so close so sad. he almost made a safe landing. he...so close so sad. he almost made a safe landing. he was between north bound cars he should have slammed the wheels down and locked up the breaks. but he kept gliding and somehow got head on into the south bound traffic. a rear end collision with on going traffic would be softer. better yet he should have gone in the ocean. the beach is to dangerous with all those tourists covered with oil boiling Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-91201756132811482752022-05-21T14:26:13.258-04:002022-05-21T14:26:13.258-04:00Look at the example street view image below and th...Look at the example street view image below and think about needing to hit a gap in traffic. Can't say in that example of traffic on the bridge that it makes no sense that he would want to extend his glide to the narrow mid-point hump of the bridge to drop into the gap just past the red truck.<br /><br />https://goo.gl/maps/TQU2AFxdt59v6XZu8<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-87493957883491469632022-05-21T13:40:39.766-04:002022-05-21T13:40:39.766-04:00Every Skyhawk pilot knows the procedure is to drop...Every Skyhawk pilot knows the procedure is to drop full flaps once your landing site has been made and it won't affect your glide. In any case, it makes no sense that he would want to extend his glide to the narrow mid-point hump of the bridge versus the more favorable wider section of road earlier in his flight path. And it was only two minutes between engine failure and crash, no way the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-10941530847518863082022-05-21T02:17:05.518-04:002022-05-21T02:17:05.518-04:00My experience iin KPHX was between 2010 and 2014.
...My experience iin KPHX was between 2010 and 2014.<br />Thanks for the link.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-89015281690222645772022-05-20T21:02:51.942-04:002022-05-20T21:02:51.942-04:00Get off your high horse/out of your recliner and t...Get off your high horse/out of your recliner and think critically. Dropping the flaps would result in a slower touchdown with less forces… but also reduces gliding distance. If the area prior to touchdown was unsuitable, that would explain an omission of flaps. So would the battery being drained, but IIRC the nav lights may have been on. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-43834829942783903962022-05-20T19:57:49.216-04:002022-05-20T19:57:49.216-04:00Absolutely, I’ve commonly flown this same route so...Absolutely, I’ve commonly flown this same route southbound to the Keys, it’s both a scenic flight and for traffic/airspace purposes. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-2778197952079350622022-05-20T17:58:24.264-04:002022-05-20T17:58:24.264-04:0018% of all ditchings are fatal (less fatals happen...18% of all ditchings are fatal (less fatals happen close to land), but also 18% of all off-airport landings are also fatal. Given the choice of burning to death or drowning, sorry I'd take drowning. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6060827553081940333.post-80255228279958509382022-05-20T17:55:28.086-04:002022-05-20T17:55:28.086-04:00It's interesting you mentioned KPHX in particu...It's interesting you mentioned KPHX in particular, because the KPHX TRACON had a long standing policy of denying both flight following and clearance into the Bravo for VFR aircraft because they didn't want the extra workload. This was called out in this accident analysis https://youtu.be/BXr3xr4rj98?list=PLCC59953860B62145&t=249<br />Maybe things have changed since then, but it's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com